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Re:Amazon Has Gone from Neutral Platform to Cutthroat Compet... by fossuser on Thursday April 25, 2019 @04:55PM (#19752435)
I wish they offered that option.

I'd sign up for ad free FB for $2-$3 a month if it made it easy to set retention periods on my data and opt out of the collection.

Re:Amazon Has Gone from Neutral Platform to Cutthroat Compet... by askafriend on Thursday April 25, 2019 @05:14PM (#19752573)
Facebook made $118 per user in North America in 2018.

So you're offering to pay far less than they make off you right now.

Re:Amazon Has Gone from Neutral Platform to Cutthroat Compet... by Marsymars on Thursday April 25, 2019 @08:02PM (#19753685)
"So you're offering to pay far less than they make off you right now."

I block ads on Facebook web and don't have any of their mobile apps installed, so I can't imagine they're making more money from me than if I paid them to not have any ads.

Re:Amazon Has Gone from Neutral Platform to Cutthroat Compet... by dspillett on Friday April 26, 2019 @05:41AM (#19755927)
They don't just make money from you by directly showing your ads, so don't make zero $ if you as an individual manage to block all their ads.

They make money by being able to target ads, not just from simply showing them, so all the data they have about you, and your links to other people, and correlations that can be derived from all that, and so forth, all feed in to that earning potential.

You might not be seeing the resulting adverts, but can you say that about all your direct contacts, and all the people in groups you are linked to, and all the other people who interact with posts & events you comment on or otherwise interact with, and all the people that...?

You are still very much part of their income model by being part of the data graph - you are not breaking the system remotely as much as you think by arranging not to see adverts.

Letting people pay to not see ads would require both initial and on-going development & testing effort so you have to include that in any cost/benefit analysis of the situation too. And that design & development could be pretty complex: by making a legitimate ad skipping option available they risk creating a hacking opportunity that makes it easier for people to skip them without paying. It might also send a bad signal to the advertisers: people with more disposable income are more likely to pay to skip the adverts, because the cost will feel less to them, and people with more disposable income are usually those that the advertisers usually most want to reach.

Re:Amazon Has Gone from Neutral Platform to Cutthroat Compet... by Marsymars on Friday April 26, 2019 @11:14AM (#19758359)
I expect any model where fb allowed payment for an ad-free experience would still involve them doing all that targeting for others with my data anyway.

That advertisers might want to reach me isn't especially relevant, because there's no situation under which that is a possible outcome for fb.

Re:Amazon Has Gone from Neutral Platform to Cutthroat Compet... by dspillett on Sunday April 28, 2019 @02:12PM (#19772657)
But where would be the benefit for them? How many people would pay to block adverts but not tracking & data linking forensics when they can already do that for free? Probably some would, but I suspect not enough to offset the extra development & maintenance time and potential sense of bad faith from the advertisers. Further more, as mentioned in my previous post, making an official ad-free route is likely to make unofficial blocking easier.

Who the advertisers might want to reach is relevant because FB can currently promise to do whatever is practically possible to block ad blocking. This doesn't amount to much (tricks like the extra divs littered through the word "sponsored" and so forth, to obfuscate the advert related code & markup from blocking scripts, for instance) but is better from the advertisers point of view than them admitting it is going to happen and they've given up stopping it. And again, the official ad blocking method is likely to make unofficial blocking easier - they would have to defend that to their advertising customers.

The other issue that could come up is effectively creating a two tier system, with those that can afford to pay and those that can't. Equality and privacy defenders might be all over that, and however right or wrong people think each side would be there FB are not going to want that on top of all the public scrutiny they are already getting.

Re:Amazon Has Gone from Neutral Platform to Cutthroat Compet... by snovv_crash on Friday April 26, 2019 @08:06AM (#19756566)
Just because you don't view the ads doesn't mean they don't charge people for them.
Re:Amazon Has Gone from Neutral Platform to Cutthroat Compet... by Marsymars on Friday April 26, 2019 @11:16AM (#19758372)
Sure, but that would be fraudulent, and generates no economic value, so I've got no sympathy for that.
Re:Amazon Has Gone from Neutral Platform to Cutthroat Compet... by mjevans on Thursday April 25, 2019 @06:38PM (#19753160)
Also, the users that COULD pay (any price) are likely the PRECISE ones that are most lucrative to target.
Re:Amazon Has Gone from Neutral Platform to Cutthroat Compet... by onion2k on Thursday April 25, 2019 @05:25PM (#19752668)
That's the average. They definitely didn't make that much from my account that I log in to 5 or 6 times a year.
Re:Amazon Has Gone from Neutral Platform to Cutthroat Compet... by askafriend on Thursday April 25, 2019 @05:36PM (#19752733)
You don't have to log in to the blue Facebook app for them to make money.

https://www.facebook.com/audiencenetwork/

Re:Amazon Has Gone from Neutral Platform to Cutthroat Compet... by munk-a on Thursday April 25, 2019 @05:48PM (#19752818)
That sounds fine by me - in compensation for the lost revenue they would gain a bunch of public good will and lose some risk for a repeat of cambridge analytica.

Also that seems way way up since in 2017 they made only 6.18$ in Q4[1]... so who's suddenly paying so much money for our user data?

[1] https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/31/facebook-earnings-q4-2017-ar...

Re:Amazon Has Gone from Neutral Platform to Cutthroat Compet... by askafriend on Thursday April 25, 2019 @07:09PM (#19753382)
The number you're referencing is for 1 quarter and is looking at a blended global average which is brought down by extremely long term investments in places like Africa.

I cited a number that is annual and is looking at North American revenue which is an indicator of mature market potential.

Re:Amazon Has Gone from Neutral Platform to Cutthroat Compet... by jay_kyburz on Thursday April 25, 2019 @06:37PM (#19753152)
That is for a quarter, so $2 a month or $24 on the annual plan.

One day I'm going to build this premium Facebook clone that respects user privacy!

Come on Hacker News, make it so I don't have to!

Re:Amazon Has Gone from Neutral Platform to Cutthroat Compet... by GoblinSlayer on Friday April 26, 2019 @05:44AM (#19755933)
dreamwidth.org
Re:Amazon Has Gone from Neutral Platform to Cutthroat Compet... by matthewmacleod on Thursday April 25, 2019 @06:30PM (#19753093)
So I assume that's across all properties. Would I pay $10/month for Facebook, WhatsApp and Instagram? Probably.
Re:Amazon Has Gone from Neutral Platform to Cutthroat Compet... by GoblinSlayer on Friday April 26, 2019 @05:48AM (#19755945)
They will still monetize network effect and monopoly status, which paying users will still contribute to.
Re:Amazon Has Gone from Neutral Platform to Cutthroat Compet... by musicale on Thursday April 25, 2019 @06:25PM (#19753068)
It's amazing that it has come to this, but I'd consider paying a fee to eliminate all internet-based advertising and tracking. Even if it just applied to the worst offenders (Facebook, Google, Amazon...) it might be worth it.

Such a system could be easily abused, however, without some kind of bulletproof third-party auditing in place.

If Google offered an ad-free, tracking-free version of all of their services (maps, gmail, search, docs, youtube, etc.) I might even consider using it.

Re:Amazon Has Gone from Neutral Platform to Cutthroat Compet... by rchaud on Friday April 26, 2019 @04:51PM (#19761627)
> but I'd consider paying a fee to eliminate all internet-based advertising and tracking.

It's too late for that, I'm afraid. Google and the others have invested billions in their ad products and made back many more billions. It wouldn't make any sense for them to offer any kind of paid opt-out.

And even if you didn't use any Google services, they already have reams of data on you based on your correspondence with anyone with a Gmail account, plus whatever data they can buy off your carrier network and your credit card provider.

Re:Amazon Has Gone from Neutral Platform to Cutthroat Compet... by JoeAltmaier on Friday April 26, 2019 @04:56PM (#19761669)
Why not? Their per-human revenue is in the single-digit dollars. If I pay $10, they're ahead of the game.

Netflix etc do it with premium services etc

Re:Amazon Has Gone from Neutral Platform to Cutthroat Compet... by fooker on Thursday April 25, 2019 @11:28PM (#19754611)
>If Google offered an ad-free, tracking-free version of all of their services

Gsuite?

Re:Amazon Has Gone from Neutral Platform to Cutthroat Compet... by dontblink on Friday April 26, 2019 @10:11AM (#19757656)
Spoiler alert: they do for many of their services. GSuite, YouTube premium, etc
Re:Amazon Has Gone from Neutral Platform to Cutthroat Compet... by return1 on Thursday April 25, 2019 @06:25PM (#19753066)
would most of your family & friends also do that? Because it doesnt matter if you opt out from targeting , if they can infer everything about you from your friends.