Rich countries tend to have a bigger middle-class, except the USA

Re:Rich countries tend to have a bigger middle-class, except... by darksaints on Tuesday April 23, 2019 @05:07PM (#19732867)

The alternative view is that most Americans have only ever known one type of government: an incompetent one. We spend more per capita on Medicare than most first world countries spend on their universal health care, but we only cover 15% of the population. We build roads, railroads, pipelines, and other basic infrastructure at 4-10x markup over the costs that other first world countries are paying. We spend more on education than other countries but get worse outcomes.

If you ask any underperforming manager why they are underperforming, they'll all say the same thing: not enough resources. Give me more staff, give me more budget. But they don't get it because they squander the budget they do have.

Other countries might be getting 30% more funding than the US gives their government, but the returns on that spending are 1000% more than what the US gets from their government. Fix that problem first and I think you'll be surprised at how willing people will be to fund their government appropriately.

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Re:Rich countries tend to have a bigger middle-class, except... by tristor on Tuesday April 23, 2019 @05:13PM (#19732928)

This is pretty much how I feel. I've traveled all over the world and seen everything from good to bad. I generally opposed increased taxation in the US, not because I am opposed to the policies it would benefit, but because I do not believe I get my money's worth from our government. Given the services I receive, I pay a massively higher tax burden than I would in most of Europe comparatively.

The quality and quantity of services are so much higher in Europe that the minimal additional cost isn't burdensome, but our services are so few and so poor in the US that any additional cost I couldn't abide and I think we should be pushing hard for the government to do more with less.

In the end, this is what Eisenhower warned us about. It's a consequence largely of the military-industrial complex, and then similar complexes between government and other industries. These situations with the intentional incompetence to drive cost overruns is effectively a fraud committed against the American taxpayer, and it is absurd to expect us to want to pay one red cent more into what is effectively a scam.

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Re:Rich countries tend to have a bigger middle-class, except... by monocasa on Tuesday April 23, 2019 @05:12PM (#19732916)

I mean, the old adage that it's expensive to be poor applies to government spending too. If you're missing 30% of what you need in the moment, you're probably going to end up spending way more over time.

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Re:Rich countries tend to have a bigger middle-class, except... by darksaints on Tuesday April 23, 2019 @05:27PM (#19733060)

But we aren't doing that. For example, Medicare already has the budget for universal health care, if we are going by standards for cost effectiveness that are set by other first world countries. But we don't have universal health care, do we?

Imagine having a government that through intense reform gave us top tier primary education, universal health care, and 10x more infrastructure, and they did it without raising taxes. All of that is possible today.

Now imagine that that same government proposed a new program for FTTH in all major metro areas. Passing funding for such a program would be a breeze. The government could say "this will cost you $x less than you are currently paying" and people would actually believe them!

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Re:Rich countries tend to have a bigger middle-class, except... by bgorman on Tuesday April 23, 2019 @05:14PM (#19732935)

Absolutely on the money. The corruption/inefficiency in US government is staggering. I am not sure how it is in other countries, but a major problem in the United States is that government employee unions are allowed to lobby the government, strike, and run political advertisements for their own agenda, which is usually not in the public at large's best interest.

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Re:Rich countries tend to have a bigger middle-class, except... by vlunkr on Tuesday April 23, 2019 @05:45PM (#19733250)

There are also significant libertarian ideals at play in the US. People don't want to pay the government to control their healthcare, why shouldn't they control that themselves? To say people are just "deluded" is oversimplifying IMO.

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