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A comment on TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes.

Re:TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to F... by untog on Monday April 22, 2019 @10:05AM (#19718999)
They're not perfect, but I've had success filing with FreeTaxUSA - federal is free, state is $15:

https://www.freetaxusa.com/

Obviously too late for people this year, and my tax situation is relatively straightforward so I can't speak to how well it handles edge cases, but the first year I used it I went through the process with both TurboTax and FreeTaxUSA and got the exact same estimated refund.

The last straw with TurboTax was when I needed to get some details from a previous year's tax return and found out that they would not let me access a return I'd paid to file with them unless I upgraded my plan. Absolute scum. I took the opportunity to also close my Mint account (same parent company as TurboTax) which I barely use and has been sending all kinds of transaction data for them to profit from.

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Re:TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to F... by ApolloFortyNine on Monday April 22, 2019 @11:10AM (#19719476)
I used Free Tax USA this year, and it ended up giving me the same number Turbo Tax did (since you can do Turbo Tax for free until the end).

My taxes include a multitude of stock sales, losses (from calls and puts), as well as my W2.

It takes a little longer to fill out then Turbo Tax due to the lack of integrations with banks and what not, but I still finished the whole thing in less than an hour. It's free for Federal, and they wanted something like $10 for my state so I did it out of lazyness.

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Re:TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to F... by geomark on Monday April 22, 2019 @11:19PM (#19725301)
Does Free Tax USA handle US expats who don't have a US mailing address? Some years ago TuboTax did not support electronic filing so I was forced to print out the tax return and send it via a third world postal service. Not a good feeling.
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Re:TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to F... by MandieD on Tuesday April 23, 2019 @06:56AM (#19727304)
No, they don't - I just tried it.
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Re:TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to F... by scrooched_moose on Monday April 22, 2019 @12:03PM (#19720001)
CreditKarma is 100% free for everything. I've used them the last two years without issue, although they dramatically improved the service this last year. It was a little rough year 1.
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Re:TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to F... by briffle on Monday April 22, 2019 @12:12PM (#19720096)
I want to try CreditKarma's free filing, but since its free, I'm the product, and i'm not sure what that means, when handing them all my tax info yet..
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Re:TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to F... by sinatra on Monday April 22, 2019 @02:08PM (#19721164)
This statement, "If it's free, I'm the product" is becoming less and less relevant because, "Even if it's not free, I'm usually the product anyway"

Think Comcast, Verizon, various Android phones, various modern TVs, etc.

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Re:TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to F... by WhompingWindows on Monday April 22, 2019 @03:08PM (#19721817)
Okay, granted many companies do it, but you're still dodging the parent comment's issue about this specifically. WHY is it free, WHAT are they doing?
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Re:TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to F... by ip26 on Monday April 22, 2019 @07:25PM (#19724088)
WHAT are they doing?

I think his point is something like "Who knows, but you can be sure TurboTax is doing it too"

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Re:TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to F... by zaidf on Monday April 22, 2019 @05:09PM (#19723020)
Also: Apple.
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Re:TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to F... by gleenn on Monday April 22, 2019 @10:32PM (#19725110)
Do you have any citations for that claim? Anything I can search for?
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Re:TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to F... by scrooched_moose on Monday April 22, 2019 @12:17PM (#19720136)
Admittedly I was a little concerned by that, but since I already use them for credit monitoring I didn't feel like I was handing them all that much more information. Better to give them a little more info, than involve another company who may still use my info even after I pay them.

I do like they're at least pretty transparent about their business model:

https://help.creditkarma.com/hc/en-us/articles/202414090-Is-...

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/01081...

https://www.moneyunder30.com/credit-karma

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Re:TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to F... by dentemple on Monday April 22, 2019 @12:42PM (#19720373)
Mate, even when you do pay for services, you're still getting your data sold to third-party vendors.

So you might as well utilize companies that provide an actually good product.

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Re:TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to F... by Gaelan on Monday April 22, 2019 @01:10PM (#19720628)
Do the offline/desktop versions of TurboTax, etc do this? Not arguing, just surprised
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Re:TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to F... by jschwartzi on Monday April 22, 2019 @02:20PM (#19721292)
The IRS requires any tax filing software to get your permission to use your information for anything other than filing your taxes. In the case of TurboTax there's a contract they present at the beginning that authorizes them to use your information for marketing. If you decline the contract then you can still use their services and they're not able to sell your information on unless it's related to filing your taxes.
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Re:TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to F... by brigade on Monday April 22, 2019 @02:21PM (#19721299)
At the very least, they can’t violate IRS §7216 without your explicit consent, which they ask for with the default sync to their parent company. And for now that isn’t required to use their filing.
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Re:TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to F... by mandeepj on Monday April 22, 2019 @03:14PM (#19721878)
I'm staying away from these free services after data scandals. My tax return is highly sensitive data. I don't want it to get in the hands of advertisers in lieu of saving a few bucks.
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Re:TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to F... by brocket on Monday April 22, 2019 @05:22PM (#19723121)
Since it was my first year trying CreditKarma I decided to do my taxes with both CreditKarma and TurboTax to compare. CreditKarma matched TurboTax return amount exactly for me this year. I also found CreditKarma interface easier to navigate and it took me less time to complete. Would recommend over TurboTax (if you're eligible).
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Re:TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to F... by throwaway44562 on Monday April 22, 2019 @03:00PM (#19721758)
CreditKarma requires a non VOIP number before you can sign up for their tax app.
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Re:TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to F... by avel on Monday April 22, 2019 @04:35PM (#19722702)
Hm, I've used my Google Voice number without a problem.
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Re:TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to F... by brocket on Monday April 22, 2019 @05:22PM (#19723126)
It also rejected my Google Voice number.
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Re:TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to F... by samename on Monday April 22, 2019 @04:38PM (#19722741)
Unfortunately Credit Karma doesn't let you delete you account; you can deactivate, but your data stays with them for at least two more years.
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Re:TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to F... by arthurdenture on Monday April 22, 2019 @02:42PM (#19721574)
+1 to freetaxusa. I started using them a decade ago when I first had to file taxes, and I've been pleasantly surprised that they have remained a good choice this whole time. The product doesn't even feel like it has changed much (other than the never-ending tax law changes) over the years, which is a rarity for web-based products. It just does what it needs to do.
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Re:TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to F... by 0x0000000 on Monday April 22, 2019 @03:20PM (#19721930)
I've also been using FreeTaxUSA for the past couple years and have been pretty happy, but this year, for the first time, they went down for several hours on April 15[0] (I know, I know, my fault for procrastinating). I ended up filing via CreditKarma about 45 minutes before midnight, thankfully FreeTaxUSA came online long enough for me to pull up last year's return to get my AGI for the necessary IRS identity verification.

I'll probably try them again next year, but CreditKarma worked out pretty well (they've come a long way since the first version a couple years ago) and doesn't charge for state filing. The big downside is that you have to agree to let them use whatever data they pull in as part of your profile for better marketing etc.

[0] https://twitter.com/FreeTaxUSA/status/1117953907550855168

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Re:TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to F... by endtime on Monday April 22, 2019 @10:19AM (#19719111)
I used FreeTaxUSA last year and this year. Very cheap, the free support tier was quick and helpful, and they even saved me some time by prefilling applicable fields from last year.
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Re:TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to F... by pubutil on Tuesday April 23, 2019 @01:25AM (#19725812)
I definitely recommend FreeTaxUSA. I work 1099, and my tax burden was a not-insignificant amount (to me) this year. I went through TurboTax, CreditKarma, and FTUSA’s processes and found:

-Of the three options, TurboTax returned the highest amount owed to federal and state govt

-CreditKarma and FTUSA’s federal totals owed were ~$2k less than TT, and a few hundred $ less owed for state

-FTUSA was the least expensive option of the three, at ~$80 less owed than CreditKarma

I’m not sure why the totals were different, but it was absolutely worth it to go through the process three times. Especially to not support Intuit’s lobbying practices.

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Re:TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to F... by anilshanbhag on Monday April 22, 2019 @11:18AM (#19719540)
I was seriously considering running ads for FreeTaxUSA out of disgust for TurboTax, it is sad that information flows so slowly through the world :/
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Re:TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to F... by JudgeWapner on Monday April 22, 2019 @02:27PM (#19721377)
it can have unexpected benefits too, however. All it takes is one viral movement, like #fuckTurboTax and simple guides to file free (with specific detours around the dark patterns) could spread nationwide in a single afternoon. It's just a matter of capturing enough peoples' attention.
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Re:TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to F... by omilu on Tuesday April 23, 2019 @08:10AM (#19727782)
been using turbo tax forever, no more!
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Re:TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to F... by mars4rp on Monday April 22, 2019 @02:47PM (#19721624)
if you are CA resident and don't have a very complicated tax return, you could file the state for free using Franchise Tax Board's CalFile.
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Re:TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to F... by omilu on Tuesday April 23, 2019 @08:08AM (#19727761)
not to defend turbo tax but you can download the tax return as a pdf when you file.
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Re:TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to F... by rootsudo on Monday April 22, 2019 @11:50AM (#19719846)
Not anymore. They paywalled previous returns which were free for the past 5+ years.
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Re:TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to F... by tylerrobinson on Monday April 22, 2019 @10:07AM (#19719020)
I'm no TurboTax apologist, but really? I think you always have access to the PDF versions of past years' tax returns upon signing in to your account.
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Re:TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to F... by untog on Monday April 22, 2019 @10:10AM (#19719041)
Just tried it again:

> It looks like you need to pay first to instantly access your TurboTax returns

> For instructions on how to access your returns, click help in the upper right hand corner of your screen and type “Prior Year Return” into the search box

and when I do that:

> To access your prior year return before you file, you have to:

> Be in an upgraded version of TurboTax (or add PLUS to TurboTax Free Edition).

The fact that it makes you search their help system for the answer to your question is just the icing on the cake...

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Re:TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to F... by tylerrobinson on Monday April 22, 2019 @10:30AM (#19719177)
Interesting. Now that I think about it, maybe I've only attempted to do this after paying for the current year's software. I also pay for the self-employed version, which might play a part.

My original thinking was coming from going through the mortgage application process last year, and I was able to retrieve my previous PDFs mid-year without a problem.

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Re:TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to F... by mikeash on Monday April 22, 2019 @11:02AM (#19719436)
It’s especially egregious since the IRS will give you a transcript for free.
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Re:TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to F... by int_19h on Monday April 22, 2019 @04:05PM (#19722347)
TurboTax will also give you the complete return free... if you download it right after you file it.

(This sort of thing is why it's a good idea to do just that regardless of which service you're using.)

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Re:TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to F... by hawkesnest on Monday April 22, 2019 @10:13AM (#19719067)
I had the same experience. They hold your previous years' filings hostage for some fee. While I admit it was my fault for not having my previous 1040 handy at the time (It was somewhere "safe" and mildly inconvenient) this practice surprised me.
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