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Re:How to Track Your Kids (and Other People's Kids) with the... by leokennis on Thursday April 18, 2019 @11:54AM (#19692018)
I totally get your point. However, losing track of young (1-4 years) kids in IKEA or an amusement park is a very real thing. Not using “new technology” to mitigate this issue seems like a waste.
Re:How to Track Your Kids (and Other People's Kids) with the... by mgfist on Thursday April 18, 2019 @12:21PM (#19692299)
I'd go even further in the opposite direction than other responders and say this can be a good thing. Your child getting lost in ikea is a safe way for them to learn the dangers of getting lost and also a safe challenge to overcome. Similar to how falling and hurting yourself in a playground is a safe way to test boundaries and experience challenge.

Imagine you're 5 and you get lost in ikea and get scared to death. Nothing bad will happen because it's ikea, but you'll learn that getting lost is terrifying and you will be a lot less likely to do it again.

Kids need to be safely challenged, or else they won't know how to respond to it when it happens for real. Not having challenges makes kids narcissistic and lowers their empathy. Helicopter parenting is turning our kids into the worse kinds of people.

Re:How to Track Your Kids (and Other People's Kids) with the... by ed312 on Thursday April 18, 2019 @01:08PM (#19692734)
I wonder if attaching a tracking bracelet (just to be sure the kid is not actually getting abducted) and intentionally "losing" the child might provide a useful formative experience without much risk.
Re:How to Track Your Kids (and Other People's Kids) with the... by wccrawford on Thursday April 18, 2019 @12:46PM (#19692517)
IMO, the problem isn't "the kid got lost in IKEA". The problem is "the kid was abducted in IKEA".

We've got pretty good systems in place for dealing with kids who are merely lost. Dealing with kids who are abducted is another story, and a tracker definitely helps there. It's a sad reality that we have to worry about that situation still.

Re:How to Track Your Kids (and Other People's Kids) with the... by Sir_Cmpwn on Thursday April 18, 2019 @12:53PM (#19692594)
No, we don't have to worry about this situation, and using them to justify this technology is wrong.

Child abduction by a non-parent is exceptionally rare. Each year there are around 200 of them, of which 90% make it home safely. That means that your child's risk of being abducted is about 0.00027%. That's absolutely no basis to justify this awful technology on, and no reason for you to worry as a parent. Not to mention: the abductor could just take your spyware watch off of the kid.

source: https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/2016-ncic-missing-person...

Re:How to Track Your Kids (and Other People's Kids) with the... by zestyping on Thursday April 18, 2019 @01:42PM (#19693051)
I'm trying to understand how you got 200 from this report. On page 2, I see this paragraph about the Missing Person Circumstances (MPC) field in their database:

"Of the 647,435 records entered in 2016, the MPC field was utilized in 315,995 (48.8%). When the MPC field was utilized in 2016 entries, 303,237 (96%) were coded as Runaway, 2,107 (.7%) as Abducted by Non-custodial Parent, 303 (.1%) as Abducted by Stranger, and 10,348 (3.3%) as Adult - Federally required entry."

So it looks like one should take the number 303 for "Abducted by Stranger" and perhaps, since only 48.8% of records had this field populated, extrapolate to about 620 cases. Does that sound right, or should it be 200 based on a different reasoning?

Of course, 620 cases is still a pretty small number. I just wanted to understand where your numbers came from. How did you get the figure of 90% making it home safely, and how did you calculate the probability of 0.00027%?

Re:How to Track Your Kids (and Other People's Kids) with the... by Sir_Cmpwn on Thursday April 18, 2019 @01:49PM (#19693106)
Actually I have to admit that I originally wrote my numbers based on a random article I found which summarizes this source:

https://www.creditdonkey.com/kidnapping-statistics.html

Then I went to the source to verify that the information was there, but didn't re-run my numbers. I apologise, that was lazy and misleading.

Re:How to Track Your Kids (and Other People's Kids) with the... by zestyping on Saturday April 20, 2019 @02:15AM (#19705075)
Oh, okay, cool. Thanks for clearing that up! I just happened to dive in because I also believe the panic about abductions by strangers is overblown, and wanted to be able to quote numbers with confidence.
Re:How to Track Your Kids (and Other People's Kids) with the... by djsumdog on Thursday April 18, 2019 @01:23PM (#19692875)
abductions are not a real risk. They are incredibly incredibly rare. The fiction this is common is what has led to the over protection of kids and the inability of them to develop in the ways previous generations have.

Kids are much much more likely to face abuse from a family member or close friend than they are to be abducted. The sheer rareness of Amber Alerts (not to mention their effectiveness) are a good indicator of that fact.

Re:How to Track Your Kids (and Other People's Kids) with the... by vangelis on Thursday April 18, 2019 @01:13PM (#19692794)
Don't worry, your child is much more likely to be abducted by someone you know than someone off the street. I'd be the most wary of who you drove to Ikea with.
Re:How to Track Your Kids (and Other People's Kids) with the... by astura on Thursday April 18, 2019 @01:12PM (#19692782)
This is ridiculous... Unless your tracker is intradermal, the abductor would just remove it.
Re:How to Track Your Kids (and Other People's Kids) with the... by skrebbel on Thursday April 18, 2019 @11:58AM (#19692043)
I don't see it. Both IKEA and theme parks are well equipped to deal with this. Speaker systems, clearly recognizable employees, etc. "Attention visitors, little Luke can't find his parents, can the parents of Luke please come to the infodesk?"

(My youngest turns 4 tomorrow and we've visited IKEAs and theme parks many times without trackers)

Re:How to Track Your Kids (and Other People's Kids) with the... by barbecue_sauce on Thursday April 18, 2019 @12:08PM (#19692155)
You've gone to multiple, distinct IKEAs?
Re:How to Track Your Kids (and Other People's Kids) with the... by WrtCdEvrydy on Thursday April 18, 2019 @12:14PM (#19692217)
Yes, how will know which one has the best meatballs, I'm a fan of number #37, but #43 is a close second.
Re:How to Track Your Kids (and Other People's Kids) with the... by wingerlang on Thursday April 18, 2019 @12:51PM (#19692580)
Not the guy but, is that odd?
Re:How to Track Your Kids (and Other People's Kids) with the... by skrebbel on Thursday April 18, 2019 @01:12PM (#19692776)
It was a comment on my weird grammar (that I have since fixed) and pretty on point :-)
Re:How to Track Your Kids (and Other People's Kids) with the... by skrebbel on Thursday April 18, 2019 @12:10PM (#19692170)
Actually, yes :-)

Fixed the grammar, thanks.

Re:How to Track Your Kids (and Other People's Kids) with the... by janpot on Thursday April 18, 2019 @12:27PM (#19692347)
We have two of those in Brussels...
Re:How to Track Your Kids (and Other People's Kids) with the... by jak92 on Thursday April 18, 2019 @11:56AM (#19692032)
I remember getting lost in a department store as a child. Sure, it was "scary" for a few minutes, but ultimately 99.9999% will be reunited.

No need to keep a permanent record of every movement.

Re:How to Track Your Kids (and Other People's Kids) with the... by barbecue_sauce on Thursday April 18, 2019 @12:10PM (#19692173)
I remember purposefully hiding in the hollow center of the circular racks of clothing at the department store as a small child.
Re:How to Track Your Kids (and Other People's Kids) with the... by LeifCarrotson on Thursday April 18, 2019 @01:37PM (#19692993)
I do, too.

I also remember a few times (both as a young, scared small child, and as an older embarrased teenager) losing track of my parents and having the employees call "Will Mrs. Carrotson please come to the service counter" over the intercom...and I hear similar messages when shopping now as an adult.

That said, I'm a lot more fearful of what could happen if my toddler was found by someone other than me in the center of the clothing rack. To be clear, I have little fear of a criminal harming or absconding with my child, I'm much more afraid of what happens when a well-meaning bystander thinks they need to call CPS to make sure that my kid is taken care of.

Re:How to Track Your Kids (and Other People's Kids) with the... by Mirioron on Thursday April 18, 2019 @01:49PM (#19693101)
Yeah, it does seem like CPS is the boogeyman. They're pretty much the last people you'd want involved with your kid.
Re:How to Track Your Kids (and Other People's Kids) with the... by icebraining on Thursday April 18, 2019 @11:58AM (#19692047)
I'm betting not all parents even consider these things might be making a permanent record. They just want something to find the kids if and when they're lost.
Re:How to Track Your Kids (and Other People's Kids) with the... by smileysteve on Thursday April 18, 2019 @12:15PM (#19692229)
> I remember getting lost in a department store as a child.

I do too; except I remember being so scared of being lost that I kept better track of my parent

Re:How to Track Your Kids (and Other People's Kids) with the... by Sir_Cmpwn on Thursday April 18, 2019 @12:01PM (#19692074)
Losing your kids in IKEA... is not a big deal.

kzzzt can the parents of the missing child please report to customer service to pick up their child kzzzt

Re:How to Track Your Kids (and Other People's Kids) with the... by jbigelow76 on Thursday April 18, 2019 @12:10PM (#19692177)
Losing your kids in IKEA... is not a big deal.

Somebody else losing their kids in an IKEA is no big deal. To the parent of the lost kid, for the duration the kid is missing, it's probaby a big fucking deal.

Re:How to Track Your Kids (and Other People's Kids) with the... by windexh8er on Thursday April 18, 2019 @12:42PM (#19692482)
Losing and being temporarily separated are two very different things. Most everyone likely has a "separation" story. Most don't have a long-term loss / kidnapping story.

I personally see the solution as both potentially useful and egregious as implemented. Selling an unaware parent a product with strawman promises that have hidden agendas are not good for anyone. This type of technology will be legitimately useful how many times and at what cost (monetary and privacy)?

If, as a parent, you have a tool that you depend on to fulfill a certain task - then part of the selling point is that it offloads the given task at some level. So... Are you more diligent about keeping tabs on your child with this? Probably not. Instead, most of us have learning experiences from becoming separated from our parents. I'm not sure the gist is for a parent to say to their child: "you have this watch so leave it on and I will be able to find you" - but regardless of how a parent describes the watch to the child I'm sure that's a portion of the root idea. Does this diminish the precedence of the situation before it happens for the child? Potentially. It also gives unknowing consumers false confidence at varied levels all while being illegitimate about the entirety of the "product".

Don't get me wrong, technology is great for many things. However it's oft over used and diminishes from some life skills. I'm overly scrutinizing of technology use in my children's life and err on the side of as little consumption through technology. Creation using technology is what I support. But far too often parents conflate the two and, simply, have no clue the negative impacts they're supporting.

Re:How to Track Your Kids (and Other People's Kids) with the... by rdiddly on Thursday April 18, 2019 @01:19PM (#19692847)
That depends on whether they're the type of parent who instantly concludes "OMG abduction" or the type whose mind goes to the much more likely, nuisance-level scenario.
[dead]
Re:How to Track Your Kids (and Other People's Kids) with the... by js2 on Thursday April 18, 2019 @12:31PM (#19692386)
Have you ever lost track of your kid? Many years ago I was changing my son’s diaper in the SJC airport. My wife had gone to the restroom and left our 3 y/o daughter with me too. In the blink of an eye my daughter disappeared. Now we were in an airport past security. A pretty ideal place to lose your kid all things considered. And it turned out our daughter had just followed after her mom and had gone into the women’s restroom, which is what I figured. But it was still fucking terrifying not knowing where my daughter was for a few minutes.

I still wouldn’t put trackers on my kid. And we were never those parents that leashed our kids. But I don’t judge parents that do.

When we went to things like the state fair, I’d write my cell # on my kids palm and gave them instructions: “if you get lost, ask a woman for help.”

It’s still damn scary losing your kid though.

Re:How to Track Your Kids (and Other People's Kids) with the... by beanland on Thursday April 18, 2019 @12:28PM (#19692359)
I don't follow. Are you saying that they're "shitty" because they're worried about their missing child? Or that the kid got lost in the first place?
Re:How to Track Your Kids (and Other People's Kids) with the... by rootusrootus on Thursday April 18, 2019 @12:27PM (#19692346)
It's shitty to worry about your kids when they are missing? Maybe you wrote that backwards?