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Re:Facebook shareholders are getting fed up with Zuckerberg ... by jetrink on Wednesday April 17, 2019 @05:10PM (#19686513)
Not this stock. It's split into two classes, one of which grants vastly more voting power than the other. Zuckerberg still personally controls a majority of the votes.
Re:Facebook shareholders are getting fed up with Zuckerberg ... by all_blue_chucks on Wednesday April 17, 2019 @05:50PM (#19686784)
"Stock" is just a way to split up ownership of a company, letting the owners vote on management.

Without this feature something isn't really a stock, at least not in spirit. It's more like the shittiest of trash-tier junk bonds.

Re:Facebook shareholders are getting fed up with Zuckerberg ... by soVeryTired on Wednesday April 17, 2019 @06:07PM (#19686894)
A bond has a fixed return if held to maturity. Equity has unlimited upside and has no maturity. Stock is the residual claim on a company's assets after all other claims are settled. Equity isn't a junk bond, with or without voting rights.
Re:Facebook shareholders are getting fed up with Zuckerberg ... by all_blue_chucks on Wednesday April 17, 2019 @06:22PM (#19686960)
Non-voting shares as an asset class are very much like junk bonds in that they give you no control of a company, and they are worse than junk bonds in that they are even lower than junior unsecured junk when it comes to recovery.

"Fixed return" isn't really relevant from a practical standpoint because shares and junk debt both have volatile prices, and price is what actually matters when it comes to securities like this.

Re:Facebook shareholders are getting fed up with Zuckerberg ... by soVeryTired on Wednesday April 17, 2019 @06:48PM (#19687109)
> "Fixed return" isn't really relevant from a practical standpoint because shares and junk debt both have volatile prices...

It's absolutely relevant. Sometimes junior debt trades a little bit like equity but the point is that bonds mature whereas equity exists for the lifetime of a company.

>... price is what actually matters when it comes to securities like this.

Absolute return is what matters, not price. The return of a bond - junk or otherwise - is known on day one of a bond issuance in the absence of default. That makes fixed income a fundamentally different asset class to equity.

Even a junior perpetual junk bond is different to equity. The junk bond's coupons would be fixed, whereas dividends vary according to company profits.

Re:Facebook shareholders are getting fed up with Zuckerberg ... by all_blue_chucks on Wednesday April 17, 2019 @07:28PM (#19687331)
What percentage of junk bonds are bought at issuance and held to maturity by investors? 0.5%? Maybe?

For literally everyone else, it is, in fact, price that matters.

Re:Facebook shareholders are getting fed up with Zuckerberg ... by soVeryTired on Thursday April 18, 2019 @04:00AM (#19689491)
> For literally everyone else, it is, in fact, price that matters.

I made the distinction between price and total return above because an asset's price can remain more or less constant while still being a profitable investment: for example a utility company with a high dividend yield.

Let me try another tack. Would you rather own non-voting equity or junior debt in a company that is about to strike a deal that will make them wildly profitable?

Re:Facebook shareholders are getting fed up with Zuckerberg ... by Thrymr on Wednesday April 17, 2019 @06:16PM (#19686930)
"junk stock"
Re:Facebook shareholders are getting fed up with Zuckerberg ... by iaabtpbtpnn on Wednesday April 17, 2019 @05:56PM (#19686819)
And yet people keep buying FB stock, and IPOs with this same dual-class scheme (and no intent to ever pay dividends) still get hyped up. It's because the people buying them aren't long-term value investors, they're gamblers. They just hope to find another sucker to buy the stock at a higher price than they paid.
Re:Facebook shareholders are getting fed up with Zuckerberg ... by jedberg on Wednesday April 17, 2019 @06:00PM (#19686839)
Maybe true, but they knew it going in. It’s not like it was a secret that he has the majority of the votes.
Re:Facebook shareholders are getting fed up with Zuckerberg ... by opportune on Wednesday April 17, 2019 @06:07PM (#19686892)
Yeah but it doesn't expire and the underlying asset can increase in value. And the interest rate can fluctuate. Not really comparable to a junk bond