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Re:Facebook shareholders are getting fed up with Zuckerberg ... by all_blue_chucks on Wednesday April 17, 2019 @06:22PM (#19686960)
Non-voting shares as an asset class are very much like junk bonds in that they give you no control of a company, and they are worse than junk bonds in that they are even lower than junior unsecured junk when it comes to recovery.

"Fixed return" isn't really relevant from a practical standpoint because shares and junk debt both have volatile prices, and price is what actually matters when it comes to securities like this.

Re:Facebook shareholders are getting fed up with Zuckerberg ... by soVeryTired on Wednesday April 17, 2019 @06:48PM (#19687109)
> "Fixed return" isn't really relevant from a practical standpoint because shares and junk debt both have volatile prices...

It's absolutely relevant. Sometimes junior debt trades a little bit like equity but the point is that bonds mature whereas equity exists for the lifetime of a company.

>... price is what actually matters when it comes to securities like this.

Absolute return is what matters, not price. The return of a bond - junk or otherwise - is known on day one of a bond issuance in the absence of default. That makes fixed income a fundamentally different asset class to equity.

Even a junior perpetual junk bond is different to equity. The junk bond's coupons would be fixed, whereas dividends vary according to company profits.

Re:Facebook shareholders are getting fed up with Zuckerberg ... by all_blue_chucks on Wednesday April 17, 2019 @07:28PM (#19687331)
What percentage of junk bonds are bought at issuance and held to maturity by investors? 0.5%? Maybe?

For literally everyone else, it is, in fact, price that matters.

Re:Facebook shareholders are getting fed up with Zuckerberg ... by soVeryTired on Thursday April 18, 2019 @04:00AM (#19689491)
> For literally everyone else, it is, in fact, price that matters.

I made the distinction between price and total return above because an asset's price can remain more or less constant while still being a profitable investment: for example a utility company with a high dividend yield.

Let me try another tack. Would you rather own non-voting equity or junior debt in a company that is about to strike a deal that will make them wildly profitable?