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Re:Why software projects take longer than you think – a stat... by afarrell on Tuesday April 16, 2019 @04:49AM (#19672117)
There is a type of negotiation that can be done: Negotiation about scope. Work doesn’t get compressed. But stakeholders can identify non-essential business-facing features and cut scope.

Note well: Automated testing is almost certainly essential. If someone says you are “building an MVP”, then make sure it is an actual MVP. Make sure you have a clear market hypothesis to test and check that it couldn’t be built out of duct tape, Google Forms, Zapier, ITTT, manual processes, and excel-wrangling.

Re:Why software projects take longer than you think – a stat... by mgkimsal on Tuesday April 16, 2019 @07:21AM (#19672682)
Testing will happen. The choice you make is who does the testing and when it happens. Internal people testing earlier is generally preferable to external customers testing 'live', but either way, the testing will happen.
Re:Why software projects take longer than you think – a stat... by afarrell on Tuesday April 16, 2019 @07:55AM (#19672852)
“We can’t make those UX improvements to our core open-source product because then we’s have to introduce untested code. The current code is tested because users have used it and reported the bugs and we’ve fixed them.” Is a real thing a project lead said to me at a previous employer.
Re:Why software projects take longer than you think – a stat... by philk10 on Tuesday April 16, 2019 @11:08AM (#19674284)
"Or customers are better at finding the bugs than we are so just give it a quick look over and ship it" - genuine quote from CEO at a company I soon left
Re:Why software projects take longer than you think – a stat... by Bartweiss on Tuesday April 16, 2019 @02:24PM (#19676018)
Honestly, I'm surprised more companies don't formalize this. There are places that offer customers discounts or feature-request priority in return for being beta testers, which seems like a major improvement in both integrity and efficient feedback.

I suppose it's both slower and more expensive than "just ship bad code at full price and wait", but I'd still expect more companies to choose it as the intermediate option between that and comprehensive in-house testing.

Re:Why software projects take longer than you think – a stat... by commandlinefan on Tuesday April 16, 2019 @10:46AM (#19674056)
> Negotiation about scope.

I used to work for an online travel site - before every project kicked off, the business analysts would produce requirements documents that always started with a "flexibility matrix". The flexibility matrix had three rows labeled "schedule", "scope", and "resources" and three columns: "flexible", "moderately flexible" and "inflexible" and they were supposed to check one option for each row. So every single requirements document listed "resources" and "flexible", "scope" as "moderately flexible" and schedule, OF COURSE, "inflexible".

Re:Why software projects take longer than you think – a stat... by jerf on Tuesday April 16, 2019 @12:17PM (#19674922)
You sound like you're complaining, but your complaint may be incomplete. If those bullet points were honored, that is indeed how pretty much every organization doing development will operate, whether it likes it or not. That is not intrinsically a problem.

I take it these requirements documents were not honored by your non-developers? A document labeling scope as "moderately inflexible" does little if it's treated as written in stone.

Re:Why software projects take longer than you think – a stat... by Bartweiss on Tuesday April 16, 2019 @02:20PM (#19675979)
One basis for complaint that stands out to me is framing "flexible resources" as a full degree of freedom.

The first question is of course whether that's true, since resources don't tend to flex up unless someone outside the project dictates it. But even if it's accurate, it tends to produce the situation The Mythical Man-Month was written to condemn. If the ship date can't move and the scope won't bend on core features, there's a very real risk of finding that extra resources can't fix the timeline problems.

You're right that most organizations have to operate this way, and it's not inherently bad; I've just found that "flexible resources" is often used as a way to avoid admitting that the real third category is "risk of failure".

Re:Why software projects take longer than you think – a stat... by commandlinefan on Tuesday April 16, 2019 @03:21PM (#19676483)
Actually it started out as a 2x2 matrix (scope/schedule), and all of them were scope = flexible and schedule = inflexible (of course), and they started adding the "resources = flexible" row so that they could walk back their claims of scope being flexible, because of course it wasn't.
Re:Why software projects take longer than you think – a stat... by afarrell on Tuesday April 16, 2019 @02:54PM (#19676263)
Wait, how are resources flexible here? You can’t just scale the number of engineers on a project quickly..
Re:Why software projects take longer than you think – a stat... by commandlinefan on Tuesday April 16, 2019 @03:39PM (#19676624)
We actually tried asking for more resources when the schedule was in "jeopardy" and were told that there weren't any available. They suggested we try working weekends to make up the shortfall.
Re:Why software projects take longer than you think – a stat... by c0vfefe on Tuesday April 16, 2019 @01:34PM (#19675587)
Good, fast, & cheap - Pick any 2, at most! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_management_triangle
Re:Why software projects take longer than you think – a stat... by drunkpotato on Tuesday April 16, 2019 @06:39AM (#19672492)
Hah! You just described the start of one of our products so accurately it’s scary! And then we built out the parts that were starting to fail as the product scaled. You can get surprisingly far this way!
Re:Why software projects take longer than you think – a stat... by Spooky23 on Tuesday April 16, 2019 @08:41AM (#19673123)
End of the day, this is what agile is. By accepting scope items in small batches, you end up done.