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Re:Notre-Dame cathedral: Firefighters tackle blaze in Paris by beat on Monday April 15, 2019 @02:53PM (#19667842)
Sure, if you don't care about art, or national pride, you might not get it.

Put it this way... would you run into a burning building to try to save the Declaration of Independence? (Assuming you're an American) Would most firefighters? Seems reasonable to me. The art inside the Notre Dame is on that level of importance, to France and to civilization itself.

Re:Notre-Dame cathedral: Firefighters tackle blaze in Paris by WalterBright on Monday April 15, 2019 @04:34PM (#19668672)
> would you run into a burning building to try to save the Declaration of Independence?

What matters about the DoI are the ideas, not the original piece of paper.

Re:Notre-Dame cathedral: Firefighters tackle blaze in Paris by Markoff on Monday April 15, 2019 @05:05PM (#19668916)
isn't it just a piece of paper already scanned it very high quality? by burning it you are not really opposing any information value

no piece of paper/art and especially national pride is worth someone's health

I live in fourth most visited city in Europe and I couldn't care less if most touristy church burned down, it's just church, people are overly dramatic, most important it's nobody died and whatever will be outcome life will go on tomorrow and in two weeks nobody will remember about it in news

Re:Notre-Dame cathedral: Firefighters tackle blaze in Paris by beat on Monday April 15, 2019 @05:45PM (#19669214)
Most people would disagree with you. Many would act at risk of their own lives to save treasures that they feel are part of their national identity or human civilization.

Just because you don't feel that way doesn't mean they're all wrong.

Re:Notre-Dame cathedral: Firefighters tackle blaze in Paris by Markoff on Monday April 15, 2019 @06:24PM (#19669448)
I guess most of those people you describe are childless minority or people too young without children mumbling idealistic phrases

any sane parent would think twice risking his life over a THING. risking life to save other (strangers) lives it's questionable, risking life to save things it's just stupid

Re:Notre-Dame cathedral: Firefighters tackle blaze in Paris by beat on Monday April 15, 2019 @07:35PM (#19669829)
Push your logic a little farther. Any sane parent would think twice about risking their life for their child's life. Now push another direction... if you'd sacrifice your own life for your child, what about for someone else's child? A few years ago, I ran into the street in front of a moving car to try to save a child I didn't even know. I wouldn't have made it on time; luckily the car saw the child and slammed the brakes in time. But it's interesting to find just how deep one's own altruism will go. (Also interestingly, I did this in front of my spouse and our own children)

There's nothing unusual for being willing to die for a THING. Hell, people have sacrificed themselves in the millions for mere ideas. People fight to the death over tiny scraps of symbolic land.

It may seem stupid to you. It's stupid to me, too. But that's what people do. That's what people are.

Re:Notre-Dame cathedral: Firefighters tackle blaze in Paris by Markoff on Tuesday April 16, 2019 @02:19AM (#19671522)
millions also voted for trump, Hitler or believe earth it's flat, just because many people do stupid things doesn't make it good/rational, most of the society it's stupid/irrational, that's just fact (sadly democracy with equal voting rights it's best we came with), just because they are in majority doesn't make their acts right unless you identify with them, then good for you and feel free to ignore facts

as for saving someone's else child I would most likely not do it if I would calculate it's too risky for me (unless I would be stupid by instinct), if their own parent/guardian font care about their lives why should I? I don't expect other people saving my children. though it's not fair comparison,I am sure you have minute to decide if you save some piece of art work compared to split second decision to save living being

I also worked in past in insurance companies, after dealing with thousands of accidents my advice it's always run over animal, don't try to save it by avoiding it (unless it's boar or something similar comparable to concrete block/tree), try to fight your instinct, saw way too many dead people or in serious injury because they tried to save some stupid dog/fox etc and then crashed into some tree/building etc

Re:Notre-Dame cathedral: Firefighters tackle blaze in Paris by JshWright on Monday April 15, 2019 @07:22PM (#19669758)
There is always a continuum of risk. By your argument, anyone who traveled to go view a historic monument is "just stupid", since there is a non-zero risk that they will die in a car accident along the way.

If entering a burning building (which isn't actually _that_ risky) to salvage one-of-a-kind historic artifacts isn't something you would chose to do, that's fine. Don't label the actions of those that make a different choice "stupid".

Re:Notre-Dame cathedral: Firefighters tackle blaze in Paris by philwelch on Monday April 15, 2019 @03:20PM (#19668058)
The Declaration of Independence isn’t just a historical artifact; it’s an expression of ideas and beliefs that Americans have always fought and died for.

Notre Dame is...was...a medieval Roman Catholic cathedral in a postmodern secular country, desecrated rather than revered by the revolutionaries who built modern France.

Re:Notre-Dame cathedral: Firefighters tackle blaze in Paris by Raphmedia on Monday April 15, 2019 @03:25PM (#19668105)
There are reports of people gathering around the site and singing. It was more than simply an old catholic building for the population.
Re:Notre-Dame cathedral: Firefighters tackle blaze in Paris by philwelch on Monday April 15, 2019 @03:34PM (#19668185)
I’m not claiming the French people don’t care about Notre Dame. I’m merely observing that the analogy to the Declaration of Independence is significantly flawed. Notre Dame embodied ideas that modern France has repudiated rather than upheld.
Re:Notre-Dame cathedral: Firefighters tackle blaze in Paris by Raphmedia on Monday April 15, 2019 @03:56PM (#19668364)
History and culture are very important to the French people. Our Lady of Paris is one of the cores of the city.

The country and government being secular does not mean that the people left their Catholic roots behind. Atheist and religious French people share similar values and the past is very important to both.

Re:Notre-Dame cathedral: Firefighters tackle blaze in Paris by beat on Monday April 15, 2019 @03:59PM (#19668381)
What's flawed about it? Are you saying firefighters wouldn't run into a burning building to save the original paper?

To flip your point around, they'd save it because it's symbolically important. Same with the art in the Notre Dame.

Re:Notre-Dame cathedral: Firefighters tackle blaze in Paris by philwelch on Monday April 15, 2019 @04:06PM (#19668439)
> What's flawed about it?

I’ve literally been explaining that this whole time. Please try to read and comprehend things before issuing these vacuous replies.

Re:Notre-Dame cathedral: Firefighters tackle blaze in Paris by Raphmedia on Monday April 15, 2019 @04:23PM (#19668582)
While 39% of the population of France is not religious, 51% of the population is Catholic (2016). Even as an atheist French-Canadian I am hurt by the loss of this monument. I can't even begin to imagine how it feels to religious Parisians.

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Edit: Someone on Reddit wrote a very interesting comment about its historical significance:

"Napoleon's coronation is incredibly recent in terms of Notre Dame's age. The amount of time between then and now represents less than 25% of the cathedral's existence.

It was built in 1163, one year after Genghis Khan's birth (or at least our best guess of his birth). Notre Dame predated Marco Polo and the founding of the Ottoman Empire by more than a century. It predates the creation of Islam. At the time of its construction, the best estimates for the global population are ~300 million (less than the current population of the United States). The cathedral was almost 200 years old when the Black Death destroyed a third of the world's population. The USA is currently younger than Notre Dame was when the Forbidden City was constructed in Beijing. It was 3 centuries old when Machu Picchu was built and Leonardo Da Vinci was born. It was over 400 years old when Shakespeare's Globe Theatre was built. It predated the original King James Version of the Bible by 450 years."

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Among other relics, a piece of the Crown of Thorns was inside the Cathedral. I don't have a hard time picturing someone braving a blaze to save that.

Re:Notre-Dame cathedral: Firefighters tackle blaze in Paris by philwelch on Monday April 15, 2019 @04:47PM (#19668771)
I appreciate and understand your replies.
Re:Notre-Dame cathedral: Firefighters tackle blaze in Paris by Raphmedia on Tuesday April 16, 2019 @11:12AM (#19674327)
Here is a good story about what happened: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6927345/Fire-chapla...
Re:Notre-Dame cathedral: Firefighters tackle blaze in Paris by crooked-v on Monday April 15, 2019 @03:52PM (#19668333)
It's also literally the center of modern Paris, as there's a point just in front of the building that all distances in the city are measured from.
Re:Notre-Dame cathedral: Firefighters tackle blaze in Paris by kakwa_ on Monday April 15, 2019 @05:04PM (#19668909)
Identity is a complex construct, and it needs symbols like that. Even if as a symbol of Church it's no longer relevant, it is still at least a past achievement to be proud of.

And we are talking a building that has survived the French history, the Revolutionaries didn't destroy it, the Communards didn't destroy it (and the destruction in this event were quite extensive http://paris1900.lartnouveau.com/paris00/commune_destruction...). It's a testament of the culture importance of the building and the fact it far exceeds its religious function.

Disclaimer: French and living in Paris (I've not seen the fire however).