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Re:Startup Stock Options – Why a Good Deal Has Gone Bad by defen on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @12:54PM (#19626550)
> Berkeley has pleasant single family homes in a great school district around the $1MM mark. You can absolutely do that on $200k/year.

Let's say you make $200k/year and manage to put together a $300k down payment and get a $700k mortgage at 3.8%. Here is the breakdown of your annual spending (using 2018 numbers):

$18,500 to 401K

$35,930 in federal income tax

$10,593 in FICA (Social security and medicare)

$13,724 in California income tax

Take home after tax + retirement savings: $121,253 Also, remember that the rules have changed and only $10,000 in state, local, and property tax is deductible against federal income.

Remaining payments:

$39,140 in mortgage payments

$10,500 in property tax

$1,000 in homeowners insurance

$10,000 in car ownership costs (gas, maintenance, insurance, financing or depreciation)

$4,000 in utilities (gas, electricity, water, trash, internet)

$1,000 for phone

That leaves you with $55,613 of "real" annual take home, or $4,634 per month, without counting the cost of food, entertainment, other debt servicing, etc. Certainly not poverty wages, and many people get by with far less, but you'll also spend 2+ hours per day commuting and have a significant fraction of your net worth tied up in a house in an earthquake-prone area.

Re:Startup Stock Options – Why a Good Deal Has Gone Bad by matthewowen on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @04:23PM (#19628433)
2+ hours per day commuting? BART from Berkeley to Powell St station is 30 minutes. You have last mile for sure, but this totally works for most SF based startup jobs.

But either way... doesn't this prove my point? This does not sound like a difficult way to live, _and_ it factors in luxuries (I for one definitely do not spend $10k/year on car ownership).

Re:Startup Stock Options – Why a Good Deal Has Gone Bad by defen on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @04:51PM (#19628668)
> 2+ hours per day commuting? BART from Berkeley to Powell St station is 30 minutes.

1 hour on/waiting for BART + ~40 minutes walking between your house and BART + ~20 minutes walking between BART and your job gets pretty close to 2 hours.

Car cost is indeed high, but if you have a kid you'll probably need one and then you have to factor in the cost of childcare... $2k/month?

Re:Startup Stock Options – Why a Good Deal Has Gone Bad by matthewowen on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @04:55PM (#19628703)
I generously based this on one income. If we need childcare then we presumably have a second income?

I realize that single parent households do exist, but we're not covering every case here.

You don't need to spend $10k/year to have a car. This is pretty trivially provable because there are lots of people who own cars who clearly wouldn't be able to do so if that were the case.

Re:Startup Stock Options – Why a Good Deal Has Gone Bad by walshemj on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @06:26PM (#19629363)
Buy a Brompton folding bike - not sure if the US has the same tax advantages that the UK has.
Re:Startup Stock Options – Why a Good Deal Has Gone Bad by Taniwha on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @05:12PM (#19628824)
rent a bike locker at the station, bike to BART - 10 minutes
Re:Startup Stock Options – Why a Good Deal Has Gone Bad by opportune on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @01:25PM (#19626861)
Since we've already accounted for all housing and car payments (btw, your car ownership costs are way too high as a lower bound. I would say an decent $10k car you hold on to for 5 years at a time would have total annual costs closer to $5/year) that doesn't sound bad at all
Re:Startup Stock Options – Why a Good Deal Has Gone Bad by defen on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @01:41PM (#19627030)
I was using the numbers here: https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/loans/total-cost-owning-car/ but you could certainly get it down a bit if you don't mind driving an older car.
Re:Startup Stock Options – Why a Good Deal Has Gone Bad by opportune on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @02:04PM (#19627234)
15k miles a year is also a lot of miles. I probably drive less than 5k.
Re:Startup Stock Options – Why a Good Deal Has Gone Bad by defen on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @02:23PM (#19627415)
Berkeley -> Mountain View is 50 miles one way (25,000 per year)

Berkeley -> San Mateo is 35 miles one way (17,500 per year)

Berkeley -> San Francisco is 15 miles one way - 7500 per year (at an average speed of 20 mph)

If you can use BART or CalTrain to get to work then you can get those numbers way down, but it's not an option for everyone.

Re:Startup Stock Options – Why a Good Deal Has Gone Bad by CamelCaseName on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @02:09PM (#19627277)
Well, if you're commuting two hours a day, you'll certainly be driving quite a few miles.

I drive around 40,000km (~25,000 miles) and that's around a 2 hour round trip commute.