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Re:US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums by lhorie on Monday April 08, 2019 @06:49PM (#19609879)
Yeah, taking a kid with a high fever to the ER in Toronto is a total no-brainer since it's 100% covered by OHIP. Now living in SF, and I've found myself mentally doing risk probability calculations, and concluding I'd be better off skipping the ER and instead following the instructions from off-the-shelf motrin because the ER visit is likely not worth the cost.

My wife firmly believes the US healthcare system is a giant scam where insurance companies leech off people without actually providing any value.

Re:US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums by toast0 on Monday April 08, 2019 @07:36PM (#19610225)
> My wife firmly believes the US healthcare system is a giant scam where insurance companies leech off people without actually providing any value.

Health insurance in the US is built around providing value to employers. Most employers are concerned about which network is going to upset the fewest key employees and cost the least amount of money for the employer, while fulfilling all legal obligations, without making the employees spend too much time dealing with the insurance company when they could be working. Nicer employers may want to cover more of the cost, or want to upset fewer employees, or have specific things they want covered that aren't legally obligated.

There's also the problem that different groups of people want totally different things from the system. I like integrated care, because it provides me with a single place to go, that handles everything, even though it may not always be the best care. Other people are more focused on getting the best care, and are ok with (or prefer) to pick the individuals who provide each service, even though it means visiting multiple locations. Nicer employers offer you a choice of providers, but it would probably be less expensive for them if everyone was on one plan, at the cost of upsetting more employees.

Re:US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums by Simon_says on Monday April 08, 2019 @07:52PM (#19610323)
It wasn't worth the cost in Toronto, either, but you didn't care because it wasn't you who paid the cost.
Re:US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums by lhorie on Monday April 08, 2019 @08:01PM (#19610371)
Technically I did, since my taxes pay for it. What I didn't pay for is the overhead of clerical work from two different corporations for mailing me letters informing me of how arbitrarily priced my doctor visit was.
Re:US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums by wolco on Monday April 08, 2019 @11:03PM (#19611402)
You did pay for it. Half of the Ontario budget goes towards it.

The fact that you would go without thought of the cost but in a similiar situation would avoid because of the direct costs shows why the Ontario system is a poor model. The costs are hidden so more services are used. If costs were direct paid for out of your Ontario fund (a yearly budget that if not used would be carried forwarded or removed from your taxes) than a better balance could be found.

Re:US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums by lhorie on Monday April 08, 2019 @11:47PM (#19611610)
My taxes pay for the doctor's time, the nurse's time, the receptionist's time, etc. And that is entirely fair. It does not pay for clerical workers in different companies to be sending paperwork back and forth to satisfy some systematically complicated pricing structure, because such a thing does not exist. And it certainly does not pay the salary for the CEO of CollectiveHealth or whatever your provider is.

> The fact that you would go without thought of the cost but in a similar situation would avoid because of the direct costs shows why the Ontario system is a poor model

The pricing is hidden from me regardless, except that in one case people get the care they need and go on with their lives, and in the other I hear stories of people getting a surprise 4-digit bill in the mail three weeks later, after already paying through the nose for insurance.

When you look at international rankings of standard of living, the Ontario system is considered a good model (along with other similar healthcare systems such as those in nordic countries). The US model is poorer on several fronts, from pricing opaqueness to availability for low income people, and let's not even go into medical bankruptcies...

Re:US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums by sbov on Tuesday April 09, 2019 @01:10AM (#19611959)
> and in the other I hear stories of people getting a surprise 4-digit bill in the mail three weeks later, after already paying through the nose for insurance.

Lol. I wish. For me it was 5 digits. Closer to 6 than 4. And I had a $1,800/month premium for a family of 4. Spent multiple hours per week for months on end playing phone tag for the hospital and insurance company until it got resolved. Hospital billing also told me to not worry because nothing ever gets paid until both sides start suing eachother.

Yeah, this is peak efficiency. I just love taking up "resolving medical bills" as an unpaid part time job for the better part of a year.

Re:US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums by lhorie on Tuesday April 09, 2019 @01:06PM (#19616760)
Ouch. Sorry to hear that :/
Re:US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums by Simon_says on Monday April 08, 2019 @09:03PM (#19610694)
While technically true, that's disingenuous. You paid no additional marginal cost. The incentive structures matter.
Re:US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums by lhorie on Tuesday April 09, 2019 @12:08AM (#19611719)
I agree incentive structure matters, and it's why I consider the OHIP model superior: "I need care and it's already paid for, so I get it", vs the US model "I pay more upfront to do the triage nurse's job myself so I can then pay again if I do decide to see the doctor after all and geez I hope I can afford the bill when it comes"
Re:US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums by blindwatchmaker on Monday April 08, 2019 @09:25PM (#19610825)
GP is not the one being disingenuous.
Re:US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums by Simon_says on Tuesday April 09, 2019 @04:37PM (#19618698)
Who do you think is being disingenuous?