Lying is consciously uttering something you belive to be untrue. It can't be your opinion at the same time.

So unless you're planning to insult the people you are talking to by calling them dishonest, you should cease this way of discussing the topic.

It's obvious you care greatly about this matter and tempers can understandably get heated, but people calling each other liars rarely have productive discussions that leave all parties wiser.

Also, I don't care if I insult people by stating facts, including, "Your opinion is wrong/a lie." Getting upset about a fact is yelling at a cloud.

And why is it obvious I care greatly about this matter? Because I've written less than a page's worth of content on the topic? Seems like a weirdly low bar...

Where opinion means "belief held", that's an obvious oxymoron.

> Also, I don't care if I insult people by stating facts, including, "Your opinion is wrong/a lie." Getting upset about a fact is yelling at a cloud.

Let me quote yourself at you:

> Stop trying to interpret my opinions as facts. Are you seriously fooled into thinking what I'm saying here is even arguably fact? Of course it's my opinion...

As another commenter already said, you can't have it both ways. Right now you're directly contradicting yourself.

> And why is it obvious I care greatly about this matter? Because I've written less than a page's worth of content on the topic? Seems like a weirdly low bar...

I said so because that would excuse your uncompromisingly hardheaded and rude conduct towards virtually everyone in this discussion. I often try to think the best of people.

I have a hunch this will go nowhere and I am not going to reply to whatever comes next.

You're right, this will go nowhere because you're trying to have a semantics argument while also being wrong about the semantics you're trying to correct.

And again, I don't care if you find me to be rude. Bringing it up is distracting from the larger conversation, about how we're being sold a bill of goods by doctors about "peaceful death" because it makes their lives easier to think about, at the cost of giving up earlier on patients.

At last, an actual substantive statement. But unfortunately, it's still your opinion.

I have no problem at all with you choosing to fight to the last and continuing to seek treatments right to the end even if you are diagnosed with a terminal illness where all known treatments have slim to no chance of success. But that's your choice, and other people might choose differently. And the problem with accusing people of lying simply because they don't share your opinion and would make a different choice from yours isn't that it's rude (though it is); it's that it's not justified.

Jesus dude, why the fuck would anyone listen to that level of hubris? What the hell kind of incentives are you giving me here, because right now my only incentive is to laugh at the person who can't actually have a conversation because they're too busy derailing it with semantic arguments about things they did understand, but didn't like how it was presented.

It has nothing to do with offending anyone. (Note that I explicitly said that rudeness was not the issue). It has nothing to do with how you presented what you said. It has to do with the substance of what you said--your accusation of lying--being unjustified.

Again, I urge you to read about epistemological knowledge. Basic philosophy concept that will educate you.

Yes, exactly, which is why I keep objecting when you express your opinion but then treat it as if it were fact.

Yikes. Okay. You goaded me into replying.

About lies and opinions: If you said something factually incorrect that you nevertheless believed to be true at the time, you were not lying.

That is why it can't be a lie when you say something that you honestly believe (i.e. your opinion).

Now it might be that "Lie" means something different in your culture, but in the English language it means "[..] an assertion that is believed to be false, typically used with the purpose of deceiving someone". (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie).

Here's a good article on the matter: https://philosophynow.org/issues/27/The_Truth_about_Lying

Now whether I lied when I said I would not reply is for you to figure out.

You can't know their opinion is wrong, because you've already admitted that's just your opinion. It's not a fact. Your opinions are not facts.

You have pointed out no fact that justifies your accusation of lying.

You've already said what you have to say about death pretty clearly, so if I were going to derive any benefit from it, I would have already done so. But if it will set your mind at rest, no, I haven't derived any benefit from what you have to say about death.

No, it's your opinion that death is not peace. "Peace" is not a word with a single fixed meaning, so you have no basis for saying that other people are lying when they express the opinion that death is peace. All you can say is that your opinion disagrees with theirs.

> Rudimentary philosophy will help you understand this conversation, as it covers fairly extensively the truth/false of beliefs, and the very nature of what truth is. I recommend you spend some time looking into it

Sorry, not buying it. Blowing smoke won't change the fact that you're making an unjustified accusation of lying.

That's your opinion. Other people have different opinions. You don't get to declare by fiat what the meanings of words are.