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Re:I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could by chmod775 on Sunday April 07, 2019 @06:57PM (#19600489)
> Something can be an opinion and a lie by definition.

Where opinion means "belief held", that's an obvious oxymoron.

> Also, I don't care if I insult people by stating facts, including, "Your opinion is wrong/a lie." Getting upset about a fact is yelling at a cloud.

Let me quote yourself at you:

> Stop trying to interpret my opinions as facts. Are you seriously fooled into thinking what I'm saying here is even arguably fact? Of course it's my opinion...

As another commenter already said, you can't have it both ways. Right now you're directly contradicting yourself.

> And why is it obvious I care greatly about this matter? Because I've written less than a page's worth of content on the topic? Seems like a weirdly low bar...

I said so because that would excuse your uncompromisingly hardheaded and rude conduct towards virtually everyone in this discussion. I often try to think the best of people.

I have a hunch this will go nowhere and I am not going to reply to whatever comes next.

Re:I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could by diminoten on Sunday April 07, 2019 @09:49PM (#19601293)
Epistemologically, there can be false beliefs, so no it is not an oxymoron, obvious or otherwise. Basic philosophy.

You're right, this will go nowhere because you're trying to have a semantics argument while also being wrong about the semantics you're trying to correct.

And again, I don't care if you find me to be rude. Bringing it up is distracting from the larger conversation, about how we're being sold a bill of goods by doctors about "peaceful death" because it makes their lives easier to think about, at the cost of giving up earlier on patients.

Re:I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could by pdonis on Monday April 08, 2019 @12:06AM (#19601963)
> we're being sold a bill of goods by doctors about "peaceful death" because it makes their lives easier to think about, at the cost of giving up earlier on patients

At last, an actual substantive statement. But unfortunately, it's still your opinion.

I have no problem at all with you choosing to fight to the last and continuing to seek treatments right to the end even if you are diagnosed with a terminal illness where all known treatments have slim to no chance of success. But that's your choice, and other people might choose differently. And the problem with accusing people of lying simply because they don't share your opinion and would make a different choice from yours isn't that it's rude (though it is); it's that it's not justified.

Re:I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could by diminoten on Monday April 08, 2019 @11:54AM (#19606339)
So to be clear, you can obviously see when I'm expressing my opinion, but due to semantics of English, you demand I express it in a way that doesn't offend you?

Jesus dude, why the fuck would anyone listen to that level of hubris? What the hell kind of incentives are you giving me here, because right now my only incentive is to laugh at the person who can't actually have a conversation because they're too busy derailing it with semantic arguments about things they did understand, but didn't like how it was presented.

Re:I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could by pdonis on Monday April 08, 2019 @03:01PM (#19608069)
> So to be clear, you can obviously see when I'm expressing my opinion, but due to semantics of English, you demand I express it in a way that doesn't offend you?

It has nothing to do with offending anyone. (Note that I explicitly said that rudeness was not the issue). It has nothing to do with how you presented what you said. It has to do with the substance of what you said--your accusation of lying--being unjustified.

Re:I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could by diminoten on Monday April 08, 2019 @04:07PM (#19608566)
It's not unjustified, and even if it was, a belief can still be true or false.

Again, I urge you to read about epistemological knowledge. Basic philosophy concept that will educate you.

Re:I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could by pdonis on Monday April 08, 2019 @03:06PM (#19608104)
> you can obviously see when I'm expressing my opinion

Yes, exactly, which is why I keep objecting when you express your opinion but then treat it as if it were fact.

Re:I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could by diminoten on Monday April 08, 2019 @07:35PM (#19610219)
I don't care if you object, I'm not going to stop.
Re:I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could by chmod775 on Monday April 08, 2019 @12:19PM (#19606574)
> You're right, this will go nowhere because you're trying to have a semantics argument while also being wrong about the semantics you're trying to correct.

Yikes. Okay. You goaded me into replying.

About lies and opinions: If you said something factually incorrect that you nevertheless believed to be true at the time, you were not lying.

That is why it can't be a lie when you say something that you honestly believe (i.e. your opinion).

Now it might be that "Lie" means something different in your culture, but in the English language it means "[..] an assertion that is believed to be false, typically used with the purpose of deceiving someone". (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie).

Here's a good article on the matter: https://philosophynow.org/issues/27/The_Truth_about_Lying

Now whether I lied when I said I would not reply is for you to figure out.