Finland’s Basic Income Experiment Shows Recipients Are Happier and More Secure

Re:Finland’s Basic Income Experiment Shows Recipients Are Ha... by mises on Thursday April 04, 2019 @08:05AM (#19571148)

The problem is whole I'd like to think they would, I think people will gradually get lazier as they get used to it. Most people do the minimum required now; what makes everyone think they will keep that same level of productivity arbitrarily when it's not the minimum liveable?

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Re:Finland’s Basic Income Experiment Shows Recipients Are Ha... by SolaceQuantum on Thursday April 04, 2019 @08:10AM (#19571189)

I'd suggest looking at retirement- one of the important facets of retirement is the encouragement to continue contributing to society once retired because it is always necessary to be productive in some way or form for the human condition as we understand it. It is psychologically damaging to not be constantly doing stuff that is at least mildly fulfilling in some way. If a sizeable portion or even a majority of people recieved UBI we would quickly learn as a population what's always been advised to our elderly.

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Re:Finland’s Basic Income Experiment Shows Recipients Are Ha... by mises on Thursday April 04, 2019 @08:14AM (#19571212)

How do you propose to do this? We have a lot of trouble doing it with old people already.

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Re:Finland’s Basic Income Experiment Shows Recipients Are Ha... by SolaceQuantum on Thursday April 04, 2019 @08:18AM (#19571255)

Do we? I'm unaware of that, actually. I was under the impression it was widely known that retired people are the sizeable portion of those who volunteer for anything in particular, and there's the existing tropes of retired people getting into art and fitness, and community activities. Book clubs. Crochet/knitting clubs. Bingo. Dancing.

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Re:Finland’s Basic Income Experiment Shows Recipients Are Ha... by mises on Thursday April 04, 2019 @08:22AM (#19571292)

A sizeable portion, maybe, but certainly not all (and probably not even most). Do you think crocheting, knitting, bingo, and dancing are honestly good things to put people to do? Let alone pay them for?

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Re:Finland’s Basic Income Experiment Shows Recipients Are Ha... by ams6110 on Thursday April 04, 2019 @08:28AM (#19571343)

Exactly. Those are time killing activities to keep from staring out the window and losing your mind. Which is also a big problem for the elderly and unemployed.

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Re:Finland’s Basic Income Experiment Shows Recipients Are Ha... by moorhosj on Thursday April 04, 2019 @09:47AM (#19572204)

Or, we could view them as “happiness activities”. In labor economics it is called leisure and the goal of people is to optimize between income and leisure.

I know lots of employed people who spend their days “staring out the window losing their mind”. It seems we have over optimized in the wrong direction (towards work and away from leisure).

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Re:Finland’s Basic Income Experiment Shows Recipients Are Ha... by mises on Thursday April 04, 2019 @10:24AM (#19572628)

"Happiness activities" are fine, but I'm not sure they should be subsidized by taxes.

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Re:Finland’s Basic Income Experiment Shows Recipients Are Ha... by moorhosj on Thursday April 04, 2019 @01:25PM (#19574847)

They already are subsidized in plenty of places (sports stadiums and public parks for example).

It raises a fundamental question about the government's role and it's goals. We tend focus on maximizing productivity and other countries focus more on maximizing health/happiness. Even the way Americans talk about education is through the lenses of creating more productive workers as opposed to something like creating more enriched citizens.

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Re:Finland’s Basic Income Experiment Shows Recipients Are Ha... by SolaceQuantum on Thursday April 04, 2019 @09:13AM (#19571853)

"Do you think crocheting, knitting, bingo, and dancing are honestly good things to put people to do?"

You also ignored my first and more explained upon example, volunteering. Is there a reason for that?

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Re:Finland’s Basic Income Experiment Shows Recipients Are Ha... by mises on Thursday April 04, 2019 @09:37AM (#19572105)

Volunteering is one possibility. People are just going to replace their jobs with doing free work entirely? If not, what else will they do? According to you, crocheting, knitting, bingo, and dancing.

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Re:Finland’s Basic Income Experiment Shows Recipients Are Ha... by mises on Thursday April 04, 2019 @09:37AM (#19572103)

Volunteering is one possibility. People are just going to replace their jobs with doing free work? If not, what else will they do? According to you, crocheting, knitting, bingo, and dancing.

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