News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Komodo Island Is Closing to Tourists Because People Are S... by philwelch on Wednesday April 03, 2019 @06:18PM (#19567709)
Are they poaching the dragons or stealing them while they're still alive? Usually you'd say "poaching" or "illegally hunting" or something if that's what it was, but stealing a live Komodo dragon sounds like a foolhardy endeavor.
Re:Komodo Island Is Closing to Tourists Because People Are S... by dmix on Wednesday April 03, 2019 @06:35PM (#19567806)
$35k/each offers you some capital expenditure for capturing. I'm sure it's not much different than capturing alligators and other dangerous animals.
Re:Komodo Island Is Closing to Tourists Because People Are S... by MisterOctober on Wednesday April 03, 2019 @09:27PM (#19568614)
This kind of thing gets me furious. I mean, I realize that folks gotta eat, but damn... poaching / stealing individuals of a threatened species that is also one of the coolest animals on the planet -- it just shows no respect. Same thing goes for elephant poachers, etc.
Re:Komodo Island Is Closing to Tourists Because People Are S... by RidingPegasus on Wednesday April 03, 2019 @10:19PM (#19568834)
If you are so hungry you need to steal then you'd steal food, not exotic inedible animals.

I hear the same argument about ivory poachers being poor people faced with no other choice but it's simply not true, the amount of money gained from killing one animal is 20 years salary, it's not a choice between going hungry or not.

Re:Komodo Island Is Closing to Tourists Because People Are S... by vishnugupta on Thursday April 04, 2019 @04:21AM (#19570231)
My sense is most of such poaching is organized crime. The foot soldiers, poachers, are one end of a supply chain. My guess is they make a few hundred bucks, not 35K. Beyond poachers are transporters, a dozen checkpoints who are paid off, a marketer/dealmaker and an eventual buyer who would have paid 35K.

At least that's how it works in India (Sandalwood, ivory etc.,) so I'm guessing this is standard modus operandi across the world.

The point I'm trying to make is, ivory poachers are indeed poor people. However, the amount of money they make from killing one animal is good enough for a week or month's worth of living. Nowhere near 20 years salary. So they are driven by hunger.

The bigger players, politicians, corporations are the ones driven by greed. The movie Blood Diamond is quite accurate IMO.

Re:Komodo Island Is Closing to Tourists Because People Are S... by zeropnc on Wednesday April 03, 2019 @11:16PM (#19569048)
I’ve been hanging out with comservationists the last few months - universally I hear the same things. Poachers are young men who start due to need and stay due to greed.
Re:Komodo Island Is Closing to Tourists Because People Are S... by mikorym on Thursday April 04, 2019 @09:10AM (#19571824)
You are making the argument that he makes more money than necessary just for food.

It could be that you have—in theory at least—two options:

1) Try to plant corn. 2) Kill a rhino.

There is no option here that makes exactly $3 or whatever is may be that your food need is for that timestamp.

I think he means "people got to eat" as in you need some kind of income.

Re:Komodo Island Is Closing to Tourists Because People Are S... by Proven on Wednesday April 03, 2019 @11:07PM (#19569009)
Crime expert, huh?

How stupid someone has to be to steal someone's food day in day out (and eventually get caught, beaten or worse) when they can "steal" something that belongs to no individual and get away with it?

If the animals actually had a private owner, poachers would mostly get caught and the island wouldn't be closed to tourists.

Re:Komodo Island Is Closing to Tourists Because People Are S... by zimablue on Thursday April 04, 2019 @09:20AM (#19571936)
I really disagree with your perspective, what you need to recognise is that people in the West effectively have a system of wage-slavery over other places, and it's based on chance not some deep system of justice. I love nature and animals and extinction fills me with existential sadness but at the same time if someone wants to kill Komodo dragons and the alternative is making 5k a year by being worked to death with no security, my aesthetic sadness about declining beauty feels a bit smug, and I certainly can't be moral about it. Until the world has anything approaching rough equality, fair enough go massacre white rhinos if that's what it takes to get a fraction of the freedom I was born with.
Re:Komodo Island Is Closing to Tourists Because People Are S... by Simple_Guy on Thursday April 04, 2019 @04:52AM (#19570330)
Do you eat meat?

How is killing chicken not worse than capturing lizards?

Re:Komodo Island Is Closing to Tourists Because People Are S... by jperry on Thursday April 04, 2019 @05:44AM (#19570533)
Komodo dragons are at risk of extinction, chickens are not.
Re:Komodo Island Is Closing to Tourists Because People Are S... by jpatokal on Wednesday April 03, 2019 @07:41PM (#19568161)
Given the choice, I'd take a Komodo dragon over a crocodile any day. They're large for a lizard, but much smaller and less murderous than crocs, and generally not an active threat to adult humans.
Re:Komodo Island Is Closing to Tourists Because People Are S... by Defenestresque on Wednesday April 03, 2019 @09:37PM (#19568658)
Check out this video of a Komodo dragon eating a monkey whole [0] or this video of a Komodo dragon killing a deer by ripping open its jugular [1] I'll be honest, they are pretty fucking murderous [3]

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLxRAcBYhKE

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nf45e9J-GMA

[3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPBiLXp5Uj8

Re:Komodo Island Is Closing to Tourists Because People Are S... by switch007 on Wednesday April 03, 2019 @11:27PM (#19569089)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Komodo_dragon#Diet

> ...swallowing is still a long process (15–20 minutes to swallow a goat). A Komodo dragon may attempt to speed up the process by ramming the carcass against a tree to force it down its throat, sometimes ramming so forcefully, the tree is knocked down

Jesus, they're mental.

Re:Komodo Island Is Closing to Tourists Because People Are S... by jpatokal on Thursday April 04, 2019 @05:51AM (#19570557)
I'm not saying I'd want to try to a catch Komodo dragon, but they're still less half the size of a saltwater crocodile, which can go over 6m! Here's one tackling a wildebeest:

https://video.nationalgeographic.com/video/worlds-deadliest/...

Re:Komodo Island Is Closing to Tourists Because People Are S... by chess93 on Wednesday April 03, 2019 @09:45PM (#19568685)
Can someone explain how it is physically possible for them to eat a monkey whole? That's probably the craziest video I've seen in a while.
Re:Komodo Island Is Closing to Tourists Because People Are S... by avs733 on Wednesday April 03, 2019 @11:24PM (#19569069)
I'm guessing nothing has the confidence to tell something that is capable of eating a monkey whole that it can't eat a monkey whole.
Re:Komodo Island Is Closing to Tourists Because People Are S... by newnewpdro on Wednesday April 03, 2019 @10:58PM (#19568970)
Incredible, I had no idea.
Re:Komodo Island Is Closing to Tourists Because People Are S... by toufiqbarhamov on Wednesday April 03, 2019 @11:38PM (#19569131)
That was... impressive. Those dragons really are impressive killing and eating machines, and people who want to own one are out of their tiny minds.
Re:Komodo Island Is Closing to Tourists Because People Are S... by Siemer on Thursday April 04, 2019 @03:57AM (#19570144)
It's a nice addition for any Bond villains lair. Big bad man like big bad toys.

This is actually a common problem in Mexico: "They [drug lords] like charismatic animals that symbolise power and strength: big cats such as lions, tigers and jaguars, along with big snakes, monkeys and nice looking birds," [1]

[1] https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/indepth/features/2011/09/20119...

Re:Komodo Island Is Closing to Tourists Because People Are S... by eximius on Wednesday April 03, 2019 @07:55PM (#19568236)
I feel like that just wouldn't be true given that just a scratch from a bite from a Komodo can be deadly - or so I've been lead to believe.

What are you basing this on?

Re:Komodo Island Is Closing to Tourists Because People Are S... by Defenestresque on Wednesday April 03, 2019 @09:30PM (#19568627)
>just a scratch from a bite from a Komodo can be deadly

That's incorrect.

>In 1969, Walter Auffenberg came along and made his detailed study of Komodo dragon behaviour. He made two critical observations:

>1) Komodo dragons can kill large prey, occasionally even buffalo, outright.

>2) buffalo that escape a Komodo dragon attack often die of infection.

>Auffenberg, based on the second observation, hypothesized that the dragon had septic saliva and used it to kill large prey slowly over days or weeks, even though his own published field observations contradicted this. The public caught wind of this idea, and the myth of the Komodo dragon as a slow killer with a virulent bacterial brew was born.

>Then, in the 21st century, Dr. Bryan Fry discovered the presence of modified salivary glands in the dragon's lower jaw. The compound produced by these glands proved to be a potent anticoagulant.

>Dr. Fry believed that this substance was venom, since many types of snake venom also cause uncontrollable bleeding. He also recognized that Komodo dragons kill prey quickly rather than over a long time, since he actually observed these animals hunting. Unfortunately, the press totally missed that last bit, so the myth lived on in modified form, with venom replacing bacteria.

>The original venom hypothesis has come under fire recently (Hargreaves et al, 2015), and many scientists now believe the anticoagulant is a digestive enzyme. There are many reasons to indicate that venom doesn't play a role when killing prey, which certainly fits with the observations of Komodo dragons killing prey violently and swiftly.

>In 2013, another study revealed that there was no septic bacteria in the Komodo dragon's maw. In fact, it has a cleaner mouth than most mammals due to constantly replacing its teeth, leaving no chance for trapped food to rot and fester before they fall out along with the dentition.

>It is a fact that Komodo dragons do not wait for prey to die, even though this myth is still being presented as true by pop culture. What really happens in these cases is something else entirely: prey escapes, gets infected, dies, and is eaten by a dragon (possibly the same one if it happens to be nearby). There is never any intent by the dragon to kill its prey in this way. They try to kill quickly, in some cases even near-instantaneously, and usually in just a few minutes.

[0] https://imgur.com/gallery/RUeB9

[1] https://old.reddit.com/r/news/comments/b8joz9/komodo_island_...

Re:Komodo Island Is Closing to Tourists Because People Are S... by darkpuma on Wednesday April 03, 2019 @08:26PM (#19568377)
Komodo dragons having filthy saliva that causes deadly infections is a myth. In actual fact they have venomous saliva, which functions as an anti-coagulant (whether it counts as a venom seems to be disputed, but the anti-coagulant properties of the saliva one way or the other seem to be established fact.) They kill by inflicting massive bleeding[1][2].

Related to the bacteria/saliva myth are misconceptions on how they hunt. They often eat their prey alive in a very brutal manner[3], rather than biting them once then hanging back for their prey to die. They also have exceptional endurance by reptile standards. Crocodilians are known for very rapid burst speed, but monitor lizards and particularly Komodo dragons can chase prey at very high speeds for much longer than you'd expect[4].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Komodo_dragon#Saliva

[2] https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/phenomena/2013/06...

[3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrg9hYjW8ts

[4] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O16-IrBIscI

Re:Komodo Island Is Closing to Tourists Because People Are S... by celticninja on Wednesday April 03, 2019 @07:53PM (#19568222)
>generally not an active threat to adult humans.

Unless say,you were trying to put one in a bag. Also they don't need to hang on to you to kill you like a croc does.

Re:Komodo Island Is Closing to Tourists Because People Are S... by rlonn on Thursday April 04, 2019 @02:56AM (#19569896)
There are 23 species of crocs and some are smaller than Komodo dragons. Temperaments vary quite a lot between species also, with crocs from the alligator side of the family considered to be "easier", though they're all crocs so everything is relative.
Re:Komodo Island Is Closing to Tourists Because People Are S... by ivanhoe on Wednesday April 03, 2019 @07:59PM (#19568261)
And can cause you a deadly blood poisoning if you get bitten because of bacteria in their mouth and saliva...
Re:Komodo Island Is Closing to Tourists Because People Are S... by Alex3917 on Wednesday April 03, 2019 @08:02PM (#19568275)
They're cold blooded, meaning they're basically completely paralyzed for about 12 hours a day. Until 10am or so you can basically sit on them for a photo op if you want.
Re:Komodo Island Is Closing to Tourists Because People Are S... by ivanhoe on Wednesday April 03, 2019 @11:28PM (#19569094)
You've tried it personally or you just presume it? I've seen them only in ZOOs, but according to AccuWeather night temperature on Komodo islands right now is just a few degrees below the daily max (27^C at 5am is the min. and maxes at 30^C at 2pm). My leopard gecko is fully active on lower temperatures than that...
Re:Komodo Island Is Closing to Tourists Because People Are S... by Alex3917 on Wednesday April 03, 2019 @11:43PM (#19569155)
I was there in 2015. I didn’t actually sit on one, but we got right up next to them for pictures. The park rangers just poke each one with a stick first to make sure it doesn’t move. But yeah you could pet them and everything.

Then in the afternoon they start running around and the rangers use the sticks to keep them away.

Re:Komodo Island Is Closing to Tourists Because People Are S... by ivanhoe on Friday April 05, 2019 @07:59AM (#19581635)
Fantastic, thanks for that info!
Re:Komodo Island Is Closing to Tourists Because People Are S... by kens on Wednesday April 03, 2019 @08:15PM (#19568338)
Apparently it's a myth that Komodo dragons kill prey with deadly bacteria from their bite: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/phenomena/2013/06...
Re:Komodo Island Is Closing to Tourists Because People Are S... by ivanhoe on Wednesday April 03, 2019 @11:05PM (#19568998)
Interesting, thanks for the link, I've heard sepsis theory many times before, this is the first time I hear about them having actual venom glands. Anyhow "toxins that lower blood pressure, cause massive bleeding, prevent clotting and induce shock" sound even scarier than bacteria to me.
Re:Komodo Island Is Closing to Tourists Because People Are S... by jdoliner on Wednesday April 03, 2019 @06:53PM (#19567896)
I was thinking this too, and wondering what sort of punishments they were going to have for people that sneak onto the island now... because they better be pretty severe if they're supposed to dissuade people who are willing try capturing literal dragons alive. Komodo dragons are terrifying.
Re:Komodo Island Is Closing to Tourists Because People Are S... by staticautomatic on Wednesday April 03, 2019 @07:40PM (#19568154)
The punishment is not being allowed to leave the island.
Re:Komodo Island Is Closing to Tourists Because People Are S... by ethbro on Wednesday April 03, 2019 @09:22PM (#19568592)
Then you have two problems: an island full of Komodo dragons AND criminals able to survive on an island full of Komodo dragons!
Re:Komodo Island Is Closing to Tourists Because People Are S... by devoply on Wednesday April 03, 2019 @06:26PM (#19567758)
> The lizards were selling for about $35,000 (500 million rupiah) each.

Sounds to me like they should be farming these things. 100 animals is 3.5 million. Not a bad way to make money.

Re:Komodo Island Is Closing to Tourists Because People Are S... by avip on Wednesday April 03, 2019 @07:45PM (#19568188)
Komodo Dragons are notoriously reluctant to breed in captivity. There have been ~200 born in captivity the last 20 years, making the economics of your Dragons farm questionable.
Re:Komodo Island Is Closing to Tourists Because People Are S... by astura on Wednesday April 03, 2019 @10:18PM (#19568830)
The price wouldn't be $35,000 a pop if they could easily be farmed.
Re:Komodo Island Is Closing to Tourists Because People Are S... by SmellyGeekBoy on Thursday April 04, 2019 @04:49AM (#19570318)
Cool! They should farm pandas and rhinos as well. Extinction would be solved overnight!
Re:Komodo Island Is Closing to Tourists Because People Are S... by pawelmurias on Thursday April 04, 2019 @06:33AM (#19570706)
Rhinos are being farmed already. You can regularly trim the horns of you rhino herd in edition to selling the rhinos themselves.
Re:Komodo Island Is Closing to Tourists Because People Are S... by ni-hil on Wednesday April 03, 2019 @06:50PM (#19567884)
If you start farming them the price won’t stay $35k for long
Re:Komodo Island Is Closing to Tourists Because People Are S... by devoply on Wednesday April 03, 2019 @06:54PM (#19567903)
I think they are very difficult to breed hence why farming is not common. Indonesia a pretty poor country so labor and land should be cheap. Whatever you have to do to get them to breed... you could figure it out.
Re:Komodo Island Is Closing to Tourists Because People Are S... by wavefunction on Wednesday April 03, 2019 @08:32PM (#19568392)
Apparently... leave them alone. Unfortunately the simplest messages seem to be the hardest for humans to understand.
Re:Komodo Island Is Closing to Tourists Because People Are S... by tomrod on Wednesday April 03, 2019 @08:51PM (#19568476)
Artificial insemination might work, right?
Re:Komodo Island Is Closing to Tourists Because People Are S... by eeZah7Ux on Thursday April 04, 2019 @06:26AM (#19570678)
"capturing", not "stealing"