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Re:The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs by GlenTheMachine on Monday April 01, 2019 @02:06PM (#19546237)
I am on Klonopin and Remeron. My diagnosis is anxiety, but really it's insomnia. I had a horrible, multiple-year episode of insomnia that started in my early thirties. For about three years I got maybe one night a week of decent sleep. I was mentally and emotionally out of it; I'm kind of surprised I still have a job after that.

A few years in, I found a psychiatrist who was willing to experiment and we discovered that the two meds above helped tremendously with the insomnia. I was then getting a solid eight hours most nights. There were side effects but they were much better than suffering with the insomnia was.

Now, after a decade, the insomnia seems to be completely gone. Knowing that I have medications available to me that can help me get to sleep is enough that I think I don't actually need the medications any more. So I'm very slowly going off of them. Klonopin first. There are, as far as I know, no guidelines for how to do this. I tried cold turkey, but the side effects from that were fairly severe. So I started tapering. I'm now down to half my original dose. If things go well, within four months I'll be off the Klonopin for good, and then I'll start on the Remeron.

These medications are not easy to stop taking.

Re:The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs by QualityReboot on Monday April 01, 2019 @02:36PM (#19546570)
Just so you know, because it sound like nobody told you... you really need to taper those drugs or the chance of seizure goes way up. It's not like other addictions, you can't just cold turkey benzos or alcohol if you've been using them daily for a long time. It can literally kill you, and you won't see it coming.

There's various schedules on how to do it, here's a good starting point: https://www.aafp.org/afp/2017/1101/p606.html

My personal rule is to never be taking benzos for more than 3 days in a row, to avoid being in a dangerous withdrawal situation.

Re:The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs by GlenTheMachine on Monday April 01, 2019 @04:09PM (#19547650)
Indeed, nobody told me. I experienced the immediate effects of withdrawal when my stomach started tensing up for no good reason, and I started sweating. That was enough to convince me to stop with the cold withdrawal and start tapering.

I did not know this could have been life threatening. That's... comforting...

Re:The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs by iooi on Monday April 01, 2019 @06:22PM (#19548947)
Be very careful tapering off benzos, the withdrawals are more dangerous than that of heroin [1]. You should definitely get your doctor involved in this process. You might also want to read through this [2]. 8 months might not be enough time to taper off depending on the time and dosage you've been on.

[1] https://qz.com/677980/opioids-arent-the-most-dangerous-drug-...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzodiazepine_withdrawal_synd...

Re:The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs by darpa_escapee on Monday April 01, 2019 @10:26PM (#19550509)
> You should definitely get your doctor involved in this process.

Doctors are often ignorant of the need to taper benzos over a long-term period, and not rapidly. Some might see you coming to them with a problem quitting an often abused drug as a sign that you need to be taken off of it as soon as possible. Sometimes instantly.

Of course you should always let your doctor know when you're taking less medication than you're prescribed. I suggest consulting with a specialist before trying to quit with a GP or your run-of-the-mill psychiatrist.

Re:The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs by GlenTheMachine on Monday April 01, 2019 @07:43PM (#19549536)
I've been on Klonopin for seven years. But I started out on the very lowest clinical dose, and for two months I tapered to 75% and for the last month I've been on 50%. In another month I hope to drop to 25%. So it will be at least six months, and as I said I started at a low dose. I feel great so far.
Re:The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs by curious_fella_ on Monday April 01, 2019 @08:07PM (#19549694)
Heroin withdrawal, while extremely shitty, is generally not life-threatening.
Re:The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs by dekhn on Monday April 01, 2019 @05:33PM (#19548519)
I had to explain tapering to my psychiatrist, who also was very skeptical of the "brain zaps" I reported feeling when I went off Paxil.

I ended up moving my prescriptions to my GP and managing the tapers myself, because the doctors don't really know how to do it.

Re:The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs by fwip on Monday April 01, 2019 @07:36PM (#19549492)
It's shocking when psychiatrists don't know the side effects of the drugs they're prescribing.

My partner started taking sertraline (Zoloft) for depression, and started grinding their teeth at night. Their dentist asked if they'd started taking any new medicine lately, and was like "oh yeah that'll do that."

My partner's psychiatrist literally did not believe that the medication could cause this - despite it being right there on WebMD, not exactly secret knowledge.

Currently looking for a new psychiatrist.

Re:The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs by skellera on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @10:29PM (#19560308)
I’m terms people might understand around here, you ever know a dev or work with one who just doesn’t seem to care to learn new things and just shows up for a paycheck?

That happens in every field. It’s just shitty when you’re depending your health on them instead of a deadline.

Re:The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs by rincebrain on Monday April 01, 2019 @07:35PM (#19549489)
I'm continually impressed with the lowering of the bar for such professions every time I encounter another basic thing that some doctors are completely unaware of, and I'm sorry to hear you had to deal with that.

I've had a lot of complaints about various psychiatrists, but one constant even among the worst has been that they were always very, very cautious about the need to taper and the possible risks involved.

Re:The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs by DanBC on Monday April 01, 2019 @05:42PM (#19548611)
Brain zaps are unpleasant. They are nothing like the withdrawals from benzos, which can include seizures which can be life-threatening.
Re:The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs by meowface on Monday April 01, 2019 @10:29PM (#19550522)
You're absolutely right, but there's also a theory that SSRI withdrawal brain zaps may actually be brief, localized mini-seizures.
Re:The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs by GlenTheMachine on Monday April 01, 2019 @07:03PM (#19549264)
Yeah, I had brain zaps when I tried to go off Remeron. One thing at a time...
Re:The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs by captainredbeard on Monday April 01, 2019 @05:04PM (#19548214)
For the sleep, try wearing blue light blocking glasses all day until you are able to sleep reliably. It sounds ridiculous but I read a study in the Journal of Bipolar Disorder a few years back (can't find a link right now) about this. I've given a pair to a friend suffering from a multi-day manic phase (with zero sleep) and it stopped it dead in the tracks, within six hours in this case.

It makes you look a bit dorky but it's better than not sleeping (or mania).

The product used in the study (and the one that I've seen work) is:

Uvex Skyper Blue Light Blocking Computer Glasses with SCT-Orange Lens (S1933X)

Re:The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs by GlenTheMachine on Monday April 01, 2019 @07:45PM (#19549554)
I'm confused. My problem is not getting enough sunlight, and I was under the impression that blue light was what I needed. Why would blocking it help?
Re:The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs by lesss365 on Monday April 01, 2019 @09:22PM (#19550198)
Strain on the eyes and blue light, iirc, suppresses a hormone related to sleep. Been wearing a pair for the past two years after a coworker recommended them after I mentioned my eyes always feel super strained by the end of the day and have trouble sleeping. They really do make a huge difference.

Before, my eyes were super heavy and aching by the end of the day, and now they feel as though only an hour of screen time has passed. Thing is if I take them off while working/looking at any screen without a blue light filter, they start aching within 10 minutes :/

Re:The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs by potta_coffee on Monday April 01, 2019 @05:47PM (#19548652)
Thanks, you prompted me to buy some glasses and try this.
Re:The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs by captainredbeard on Monday April 01, 2019 @08:16PM (#19549760)
They’re life changing!
Re:The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs by wetpaws on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @01:24AM (#19551307)
Why just not take melatonin which is cheap af?
Re:The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs by Aromasin on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @05:44AM (#19552428)
Melatonin is just a very small part of all the variables involved in sleep. If you are excited or stressed you'll have high levels of adrenaline, cortisone, or cortisol. Diet will affect levels of ghrelin, leptin and insulin. Low testosterone levels, or antidiuretic hormones, can be found in many people. All these things will affect your sleep just as much, if not more, then melatonin does.
Re:The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs by captainredbeard on Wednesday April 03, 2019 @11:48AM (#19564340)
The glasses are $8 most places ... which is also cheap. FWIW, my friend was also taking melatonin but it was not effective against her hypomania-driven insomnia.
Re:The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs by dsego on Sunday April 07, 2019 @02:37PM (#19598914)
And magnesium, right?
Re:The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs by sjg007 on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @01:42AM (#19551366)
Doesn't always work.
Re:The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs by limeblack on Monday April 01, 2019 @03:01PM (#19546869)
Check out http://survivingantidepressants.org I'm active on the site. Fair warning some people stop sleeping coming off of Remeron others are fine. Sometimes the withdrawal is multi month delayed.
Re:The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs by mnm1 on Monday April 01, 2019 @03:24PM (#19547141)
Tapering is the only solution for kolonipin. Please check out https://www.benzo.org.uk/index.htm It sounds like you're on the right path. It took me around 3-4 months also, but time varies from person to person. Stay strong. I did it and you can definitely do it! It's so worth it.
Re:The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs by theNJR on Monday April 01, 2019 @02:26PM (#19546462)
Any idea what triggered the insomnia?
Re:The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs by magic_beans on Monday April 01, 2019 @02:38PM (#19546593)
This is the most important question here. I hope OP has been able to address the original cause of the insomnia, lest it happen again.
Re:The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs by GlenTheMachine on Monday April 01, 2019 @03:18PM (#19547066)
Not fully, but I strongly suspect it had a lot to do with the building I work in. My building has no windows. My lab simulates space, so it is a big room that is painted black. Daylight Savings had just stopped, so I was getting an hour of sunlight driving in to work, no sunlight during the day, and leaving after it got dark. I think my circadian rhythms were completed screwed up.

Once you have insomnia for a few weeks it tends to be self-reinforcing. I didn't get adequate medical care during the first few weeks, when it was acute, so it became chronic. I tried, but the doctor wrote me a half-strength prescription for Ambien, and that was all. It didn't work.

Re:The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs by travisjungroth on Monday April 01, 2019 @04:53PM (#19548109)
Holy crap you were living in constant darkness. Of course you had sleep issues. Did you ever try light exposure?
Re:The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs by GlenTheMachine on Monday April 01, 2019 @06:59PM (#19549232)
Yes, of course. I got a sunlight lamp and put it over my monitor. I actually went so far as sitting outside in the evening for an hour, every day. I also tried taking melatonin.

But the thing with insomnia is that it is self-reinforcing. You get conditioned to lying in bed awake, and that's what your brain then expects to do when you go to bed. And then you get anxious about it, which makes it worse. Once you have it, removing the original cause doesn't solve the problem.

In my defense, I worked under these conditions for five years before it became an issue.

Re:The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs by thoughtstheseus on Monday April 01, 2019 @05:36PM (#19548544)
You may be interested in light therapy. Special lights for home that mimic sunlight to keep your body in sync, commonly used in northern regions (so I’ve been told).
Re:The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs by captainredbeard on Monday April 01, 2019 @08:19PM (#19549773)
This is a great resource for tapering off:

https://willhall.net/comingoffmeds/

I consider it the bible.

Re:The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs by mmjaa on Monday April 01, 2019 @02:25PM (#19546451)
>Knowing that I have medications available to me that can help me get to sleep is enough that I think I don't actually need the medications any more.

Honest question: Have you ever considered that your insomnia was psychosomatic and, through your doctors involvement in for-profit sales of pharmaceuticals, socially re-inforced?

Re:The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs by GlenTheMachine on Monday April 01, 2019 @03:21PM (#19547108)
Most chronic insomnia is psychosomatic. The problem with calling it "psychosomatic" is that people who haven't experienced it think that means it isn't real. But it is. You can't just talk yourself out of psychosomatic illnesses. They're as real as any other kind. You need some sort of medical care to manage or overcome them, just as much as if you had a broken leg.

In my case, I see my psychiatrist once a quarter for fifteen minutes. Klonopin and Remeron are two of the cheapest drugs there are. My meds cost me less than $40 a year. I don't think anyone is making a lot of money off of me.

Cognitive Behavioral Therapy or biofeedback, which are two alternatives that were presented to me, would have been far more expensive.

Re:The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs by martinald on Monday April 01, 2019 @05:00PM (#19548177)
I dont mean to be alarmist but taking benzodiazepines for an extended time (anything more than 2 weeks is probably a bad idea, especially with strong ones such as clonazepam), is definitely not a great idea. There is a very prolonged withdrawal syndrome, with many not reporting feeling completely better after many years in cases of high dose long term usage.

You may take the view that you can always take them, but circumstances change (your doctor may no longer be allowed/feel comfortable prescribing for a long time - this happened with opiods) or you may not be able to get access with them for other reasons.

The drugs will most likely stop working or rapidly increase in side effects after very long term use, it's generally just a matter of time.

I would strongly recommend you get a plan to taper if possible and look into alternatives. Many think the benzodiazepine withdrawal is as bad if not worse than opioid (plus it can be lethal).

Re:The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs by mastox on Monday April 01, 2019 @05:49PM (#19548669)
I had no idea the impact of benzo's but my first thought after reading the OP and experiencing Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) myself, "Isn't that just a band-aid, not really treating the 'wound'".

I guess I'm just agreeing with you from a philosophical point of view.

For what's its worth for anyone (including OP) reading this, I found success in studying philosophy as a poor man's CBT especially Existentialism. I think an argument could be made that these two things are the same thing but represented slightly different language and with slightly different goals.

Re:The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs by GlenTheMachine on Monday April 01, 2019 @10:17PM (#19550463)
As I said in the parent post, I agree, and I am in fact tapering. I'm down to half my original dose. I'm taking it slow. This is something where you really need to listen to your body; it isn't helpful to have a set plan. You need a goal, but you also need to be flexible about it.

I tried CBT, and it didn't work. Admittedly I only tried it once. There are lots of different flavors of CBT for insomnia, and maybe if I had tried harder I could have found one that did work. The problem is finding a doctor who knows about it and will work with you, especially if you don't live in a big city.

Benzodiazepines are worrisome drugs, but I have to admit that for my insomnia, they were almost magic. Once we got the dose right it went away almost literally overnight. But then, as the OP illustrates, doctors aren't necessarily helpful in getting back off them.

Re:The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs by mastox on Monday April 01, 2019 @10:51PM (#19550638)
> I'm taking it slow. This is something where you really need to listen to your body; it isn't helpful to have a set plan. You need a goal, but you also need to be flexible about it.

Truth!! I had to discover this for myself as well, and I'm continuing to figure it out as I go (currently lost about 50lbs in a 150lbs weight loss journey).

I'm sorry if I came across as judgemental, nor do I want to diminish your accomplishment. As someone on both sides of these drugs, it is no easy feat to make this big of a change. Kudos!!!

It sounds like the medication has done its job in that it has given you relief to get some sanity back and to focus on other options.

Re:The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs by flycaliguy on Monday April 01, 2019 @07:11PM (#19549319)
Stoic philosophy has a lot of overlap with CBT. It basically re-opened those cbt books for me and kept me at it.
Re:The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs by mastox on Monday April 01, 2019 @11:03PM (#19550698)
Also true. And I've probably been heavily influenced by Stoicism as well, its hard to keep track where the lines are when there's so much overlap between the three.
Re:The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs by mmjaa on Monday April 01, 2019 @06:14PM (#19548883)
.. and here, another reason to distrust the Lords of Pharmaceuticals: the cloaking of danger by way of re-branding. Why, exactly, is this necessary again?