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Re:Saudi Aramco Is World’s Most Profitable Company, Far Exce... by yingw787 on Monday April 01, 2019 @01:04PM (#19545494)
This isn't terribly surprising to me. Pulling money out of the ground is a high-margin, low (relative) cost deal. Like selling $1 for $2.

I do wonder how many people know that the wealthiest companies are private, just like how the wealthiest people/families/syndicates do not publish nor reveal their wealth in any meaningful way. It's like the universe's dark matter. At some point, money becomes power, and power always whispers.

Re:Saudi Aramco Is World’s Most Profitable Company, Far Exce... by Phlarp on Monday April 01, 2019 @01:29PM (#19545782)
Oil extraction has wildly varying costs. Saudi Arabia is lucky in that they have large deposits that are quite shallow. As such Saudi Arabia can produce oil with a very low marginal cost per barrel ($15 or $20). Compare that to tar sands, offshore rigs or shale gas with horizontal drilling, exotic injection techniques, high water usage, deeper oil deposits, saturation divers and royalties on the extraction techniques. North American oil producers have much tighter margins.
Re:Saudi Aramco Is World’s Most Profitable Company, Far Exce... by yingw787 on Monday April 01, 2019 @01:47PM (#19545974)
Yeah, but many of those are fixed costs, given immutable characteristics of the fields themselves, which means given a certain profitability threshold, you have a very predictable income stream.

That given of course varies on the highly variable price of petroleum commodities, but given the oligopolistic nature of the O&G industry, getting subsidies to tide over the bad times and prevent extensive capital depreciation is reasonably easy.

Saudis make a lot of crude, and the crude they pump is good quality. Hence, they print money.

Re:Saudi Aramco Is World’s Most Profitable Company, Far Exce... by Phlarp on Monday April 01, 2019 @04:17PM (#19547735)
The fixed low marginal costs of Saudi infrastructure also allows them to keep the higher cost producers on a tight leash. If US domestic production gets too robust for their liking; they can simply enforce a price regime low enough to put other producers out of profitability, and hold it there long enough that even the most cash rich extractors will pack it in and attempt to shift that capital to other ventures.
Re:Saudi Aramco Is World’s Most Profitable Company, Far Exce... by dahdum on Monday April 01, 2019 @07:22PM (#19549398)
OPEC used to have that power, but not really any longer. U.S. / Canada production has steadily lowered production costs, cheap oil will bankrupt OPEC countries before it kills off US production.
Re:Saudi Aramco Is World’s Most Profitable Company, Far Exce... by Phlarp on Monday April 01, 2019 @08:38PM (#19549905)
The glut of domestic oil all comes with higher extraction costs. While it's unlikely an OPEC embargo could affect the United States in the same way it did in the 70s, Saudi Arabia specifically can sell oil at a price that is mildly profitable for them but a loss for US producers. OPEC no longer operates as a perfect cartel; members cheat on the quotas that are set and not all OPEC members can hold the line as well as KSA can.

With all that said, the 2015 oil price collapse did lead to significant reductions in domestic production, and it was partially driven by Saudi Arabia.

Re:Saudi Aramco Is World’s Most Profitable Company, Far Exce... by martinald on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @05:56AM (#19552476)
US/Canada is a net oil exporter now, so their power is pretty limited in an embargo style situation.

Also, unlike the 1970s Saudi now has a much larger and ridiculously fast growing population - growing anywhere between 2 and 6% per annum since the 1980s. There is an enormous welfare state with very few taxes collected (on the basis the oil wealth pays for everything), but with a population growing so fast it is stretching the budget.

This means KSAs power to hold prices low actually probably hurts them more than the US now - the social contract in KSA is that the government looks after you, and if you suddenly stop getting healthcare/housing etc because of a OPEC/US oil, it will start destabilising the country which obviously the royal family as terrified of.

Re:Saudi Aramco Is World’s Most Profitable Company, Far Exce... by blattimwind on Monday April 01, 2019 @02:10PM (#19546275)
KSA also has access to very cheap labor (relatively slave like).
Re:Saudi Aramco Is World’s Most Profitable Company, Far Exce... by Phlarp on Monday April 01, 2019 @04:19PM (#19547759)
This is true, but the relatively slave like cheap labor does still require robust social services, which the kingdom pays for with oil revenue.
Re:Saudi Aramco Is World’s Most Profitable Company, Far Exce... by chadash on Monday April 01, 2019 @02:11PM (#19546309)
>> I do wonder how many people know that the wealthiest companies are private

Some of the largest companies are state-run. If that's what you mean by "private" companies, then yes this is true. But I think that when people say "private" company, they generally envision wealthy individual or family owners, not state owned entities.

If by private, you do mean wealthy individuals/families and not states, then this is doubtful. Apple sold over $200 million iphones last year at a large profit margin, and that is why they are a giant company. Even with exceptionally high revenues per employee, Apple employs over 100,000 people. It's not easy to just disguise what you're doing at that level. There are definitely some very wealthy families out there whose finances are opaque. However, it's doubtful that any of them are secretly running companies anywhere near the scale of Apple.

Re:Saudi Aramco Is World’s Most Profitable Company, Far Exce... by BeetleB on Monday April 01, 2019 @02:45PM (#19546675)
By private, he means not public (i.e. no shares that the public can buy). It can still be owned by 100s of people (e.g. "employee owned").
Re:Saudi Aramco Is World’s Most Profitable Company, Far Exce... by occamrazor on Monday April 01, 2019 @04:22PM (#19547790)
Could you name some of these private companies? I can’t think of any private (i.e. neither public or government owned) company comparable to Apple, Walmart, or large oil companies.
Re:Saudi Aramco Is World’s Most Profitable Company, Far Exce... by briankelly on Monday April 01, 2019 @04:47PM (#19548057)
There's Cargill and Louis Dreyfus, which control a large amount of the global agriculture trade (and 1/4 of the main cast of Seinfeld ;) - and there's not a whole lot of insight into at least Cargill.
Re:Saudi Aramco Is World’s Most Profitable Company, Far Exce... by boldslogan on Monday April 01, 2019 @04:26PM (#19547853)
Inter IKEA. iirc they own, among the largest furniture company in the world, a bank, real estate...and so on. And they are very private...
Re:Saudi Aramco Is World’s Most Profitable Company, Far Exce... by GCA10 on Monday April 01, 2019 @06:09PM (#19548829)
Ikea's annual revenue is about 38 billion Euros. That would rank it about #200 on the Fortune 500 global list, in terms of revenue. By Fortune's tally, at least, all of the top 10 are either state-controlled energy companies, auto companies, WalMart or Berkshire Hathaway.

Big, fully private companies are quite fascinating. (I think we're settling on a definition that involves a tight inner circle of ownership, with no stock-market listing and no government control). But they are pretty lightly represented in revenue/size-based lists like the Fortune 500.

Re:Saudi Aramco Is World’s Most Profitable Company, Far Exce... by shmed on Monday April 01, 2019 @05:40PM (#19548595)
I have a hard time believing IKEA is worth anywhere close to what the big tech giants are worth.
Re:Saudi Aramco Is World’s Most Profitable Company, Far Exce... by dmitriid on Monday April 01, 2019 @04:39PM (#19547976)
IKEA us also Sweden’s largest food exporter (or so I’m told).
Re:Saudi Aramco Is World’s Most Profitable Company, Far Exce... by superhuzza on Monday April 01, 2019 @02:43PM (#19546660)
"power always whispers"

Isn't this exactly the opposite of how power has worked for 99% of human history? In order to establish exactly who's in charge, rulers and those in power have:

- Toured their lands

- Displayed strength via military

- Distributed their likeness (coinage, statues, paintings)

- Spread their messages via radio/television

- Established themselves as the head of organized religion

- Required homage

- Positioned themselves as figures of veneration

Historically, powerful lobbies such as the church, noble classes and guilds did the same types of things.

In modern times, the same thing happens - Putin isn't particularly shy about his degree of power (but I suppose he is deceptive about his wealth).

Re:Saudi Aramco Is World’s Most Profitable Company, Far Exce... by yingw787 on Monday April 01, 2019 @03:06PM (#19546935)
Power must always be exercised to be retained, yes. But I doubt power must be publicly exercised in order to remain viable. And rulers never rule, they hold court, and they must retain the favor of the court to be viable. See "Rules for Rulers": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rStL7niR7gs

I believe one example of this was how Napoleon III lost the favor of Alexis de Tocqueville, and hence was toppled as Emperor of France: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexis_de_Tocqueville

Re:Saudi Aramco Is World’s Most Profitable Company, Far Exce... by sphinxpy on Monday April 01, 2019 @01:26PM (#19545746)
This is a very true statement. And in a very literal way, the dark matter analogy is spot on.
Re:Saudi Aramco Is World’s Most Profitable Company, Far Exce... by OldFatCactus on Monday April 01, 2019 @01:31PM (#19545796)
what other private companies are known to be significantly more profitable than Apple?
Re:Saudi Aramco Is World’s Most Profitable Company, Far Exce... by dmix on Monday April 01, 2019 @02:02PM (#19546189)
Cargill

> Founded in 1865, it is the largest privately held corporation in the United States in terms of revenue. If it were a public company, it would rank, as of 2015, number 15 on the Fortune 500, behind McKesson and ahead of AT&T.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargill

The OP's claim about the "largest companies being private" isn't exactly true...

Re:Saudi Aramco Is World’s Most Profitable Company, Far Exce... by refurb on Monday April 01, 2019 @04:19PM (#19547753)
Just a caveat, that’s in term of revenue.

McKesson is a drug wholesaler, so if they buy a case of an expensive drug for $999K and sell it for $1M, that’s $1M in revenue.

Re:Saudi Aramco Is World’s Most Profitable Company, Far Exce... by francisofascii on Monday April 01, 2019 @02:44PM (#19546668)
Koch industries is "probably" high, also an extraction company. Cargill is another (livestock, energy trading) But you don't know profits.
Re:Saudi Aramco Is World’s Most Profitable Company, Far Exce... by lozaning on Monday April 01, 2019 @02:07PM (#19546248)
Im not sure what the parent is talking about Cargill, the largest private company in the US, is much smaller than Apple is.
Re:Saudi Aramco Is World’s Most Profitable Company, Far Exce... by giarc on Monday April 01, 2019 @02:02PM (#19546180)
Cargill is a pretty big private company, but not sure how they would compare to Apple.
Re:Saudi Aramco Is World’s Most Profitable Company, Far Exce... by chadash on Monday April 01, 2019 @02:18PM (#19546379)
Much smaller. Their revenues are in the range of $115 billion/year (compared to ~265 billion for Apple), but they are in a range of much lower margin businesses. Meanwhile, Apple sells a line of extremely high margin items. It's estimated that iphone X parts cost around $370 to make, for a phone that sells for $1000.
Re:Saudi Aramco Is World’s Most Profitable Company, Far Exce... by walterbell on Monday April 01, 2019 @01:43PM (#19545937)
What private organizations have assets which compounded in value over centuries?
Re:Saudi Aramco Is World’s Most Profitable Company, Far Exce... by reaperducer on Monday April 01, 2019 @03:24PM (#19547137)
European insurance companies. The Hudson Bay Company, maybe?

There are restaurants in the U.S. that are a couple of centuries old. They might own the building by now.

Re:Saudi Aramco Is World’s Most Profitable Company, Far Exce... by Consultant32452 on Monday April 01, 2019 @01:52PM (#19546039)
Is the Catholic Church a private organization in this context?

One that surprised me was Fidelity investments. It's huge company held privately by a single family. Not centuries old and probably nowhere near as profitable as Apple though.

Re:Saudi Aramco Is World’s Most Profitable Company, Far Exce... by yingw787 on Monday April 01, 2019 @01:51PM (#19546024)
I don't know. That's the point :)
Re:Saudi Aramco Is World’s Most Profitable Company, Far Exce... by OldFatCactus on Monday April 01, 2019 @02:38PM (#19546594)
> I do wonder how many people know that the wealthiest companies are private

Well then this was a misleading thing to say. You don't know that this is true

Re:Saudi Aramco Is World’s Most Profitable Company, Far Exce... by yingw787 on Monday April 01, 2019 @06:13PM (#19548865)
You are correct, and I apologize for making such an assertion without any evidence.

I think what I meant more was the conflation of wealth and power, and the need to look beyond just the name of a certain corporation. Autocratic rulers don't technically run a corporation nor sit on the board, but I doubt anybody would defy their orders if asked. In that sense, they do "own" the corporation. This is also not mentioning the nature of shell and holding corporations which obfuscate liability and ownership, but operate according to their owner's wishes despite their disjoint legal nature.

But no I can't find any proof that any are bigger than the largest publicly traded corporations, so again, sorry.