It’s not about enjoyment - it’s a worry this is the next opioid that wrecks lives and we all have to end up paying for

Opiates didn't really wreck many lives till they were made illegal. They didn't cause crime, they don't cause bodily harm, and most people used them and had normal lives. If we legalized them now we could stop wrecking lives immediately. So this worry is unfounded, uninformed, stupid, and dangerous. It is the real cause of the suffering and really, isn't much different than what the parent comment says. Not that addiction is ever fun. But try telling that to the idiot offspring of puritans.

Yes. It's ironic in fact that many of the American founders were prolific users of opium and laudanum. Yet, the somehow lived to accomplish some stuff...

Even more ironic, the very country they founded would now imprison them and label them junkies.

Well, you've seen what Washington had for teeth, right? Carved wood. They're on display at Mt. Vernon, as I recall.

But yeah. The state has become a monster.

What do Washington's teeth have to do with opiates? There's no connection. Everyone had shitty teeth back then.

The state has indeed become a monster.

Except ketamine has already been proven safe with low addiction potential.

> low addiction potential

nah, K is terribly moreish.

I've experimented with ketamine a couple of times and can confirm. Very addictive.

They'll tell you that Heroin and nicotine are addictive.

But! If you use either of those two for no more than two days in a row every ~2 weeks, and no more, you'll never get addicted.

Probably true with ketamine. I've used it a few times, but never abused it. Occasional recreational use is possible.

It turns out that if overused the stuff wreaks havoc on the bladder. Britain has a shitload of bladderless people who enjoyed K too frequently.

Where 'overused' means snorting like 12g a day, every day.

I can't be bothered finding a source for this as I'm on my phone but I'm fairly sure it's somewhere in my comment history from the last time this came up

You would need to be dedicating your life to obtaining and consuming ketamine, at which point you already have serious problems

You make a very good point. The bladder dysfunction might have been the only thing capable of pulling these sad people out of an otherwise endless loop of k-holes.

This is untrue for heroin.

Is it? My personal experience supports my claim, although maybe my use of never is overreach.

I’ve also never really drank much alcohol, I don’t smoke, and don’t regularly use caffeine (coffee / tea).

I’m willing to believe my drug use patterns make me an outlier.

A quick search suggests something like 25% of people who try Heroin will become addicted. That is quite a frightening statistic!

> Is it? My personal experience supports my claim, although maybe my use of never is overreach.

The thing with drugs is that it's always different for everybody. Your circumstances, physical (anatomically speaking) and psychological have an impact on the experience of a drug and the potential for abuse.

My point being: your experience will almost always differ from someone else's.

I did attempt to cover that when I wrote:

I’m willing to believe my drug use patterns make me an outlier.

I think we are talking about physical addiction ;)