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Re:We moved our servers to Iceland by dylz on Friday March 29, 2019 @09:53PM (#19527115)
Yes. Easylist/EasyPrivacy here is intended to block ANY third party tracker. This is a tracker. I use this adblock list and I don't care what country you're hosted in, simpleanalytics is a third party tracker and should be blocked.

> " EasyPrivacy [...] including web bugs, tracking scripts and information collectors"

Simpleanalytics is all of the above. There is no arguing this.

Re:We moved our servers to Iceland by dagenix on Saturday March 30, 2019 @01:54AM (#19528012)
I know very little about SimpleanAlytics. However, they do claim to not be a tracker: https://simpleanalytics.io/no-tracking. So, they at the least, would argue one of your claims - do you have evidence that what they are saying incorrect?
Re:We moved our servers to Iceland by dylz on Saturday March 30, 2019 @01:59AM (#19528025)
By definition, loading it will send your (regardless of whether or not they save this or associate it permanently on their end) coarse location via IP, OS, CPU architecture, browser and via user agent, referrer, execute code on your machine, pages you visit.

In their page they say (w/r/t Google Analytics) "you maybe use the anonymization feature. This is a step in the right direction, but the sad reality is Google can still collect all the information" -- you would have to trust them too [Simple Analytics] to not collect, save, or delete-accordingly all the information sent to them.

It is a third party information collector, period. It tracks visits, it tracks pageviews, at minimum. I am not against them as a company or product, but I believe that easyprivacy is 100% correct in blocking their domain.

Re:We moved our servers to Iceland by dagenix on Saturday March 30, 2019 @02:21AM (#19528077)
I think its a big mistake to lump this type of "tracking" in with more involved "tracking" where particular users are followed around from site to site to serve up ads based on what the user has looked at recently. These are massively different things. Maybe you are opposed to both types of tracking - I dunno. Personally, I have no issue with a website keeping track of the things that they claim to keep track of (https://simpleanalytics.io/what-we-collect). However, when tracking means that a user does a search for something like "maternity" on one site and then starts getting ads for baby diapers on another - that feels like something that I understand why someone would want to avoid.
Re:We moved our servers to Iceland by cm2187 on Saturday March 30, 2019 @05:15AM (#19528559)
Even if I kind of agree in principle, what you are asking me is to trust what the provider claims it will do with this data. It’s an industry that I just do not trust, even if I had the appetite to do the due diligence which I don’t. Even if I knew the guy and was convinced he had good intentions, he might still get hacked or acquired and the data used some other way in the future.

Therefore I expect my blocker to block a 3rd party tracker which by definition has the capability to track me across websites. It makes that kind of tracking technically infeasible which is the level of protection I want.

Re:We moved our servers to Iceland by layoutIfNeeded on Saturday March 30, 2019 @07:49AM (#19528950)
We can bikeshed about the peculiarities of tracking all day long, but I don’t want any kind of tracking. Period.

I already provide all the necessary data in my request to the first party server. It’s all in the server logs.

Re:We moved our servers to Iceland by luckylion on Saturday March 30, 2019 @02:54AM (#19528203)
I agree, there's tracking and there's counting. SimpleAnalytics appears to just count hits, but doesn't track users - no cookies set, no browser fingerprinting. Sure, we have to trust in them really not storing IPs etc, but it does look good. Not tracking users, only global site usage.
Re:We moved our servers to Iceland by dylz on Saturday March 30, 2019 @02:48AM (#19528173)
Sure - I see nothing wrong with separating out the categories. There are different types and different levels.

End of the day, at least in my opinion, it is acceptable to be added to blocklists, and it is acceptable to not use those blocklists and hit the beacon.

Re:We moved our servers to Iceland by zaroth on Saturday March 30, 2019 @07:40AM (#19528926)
By that logic any external resource request including images and JavaScript must be blocked.
Re:We moved our servers to Iceland by auslander on Saturday March 30, 2019 @10:34AM (#19529592)
Yes. A website can host everything it serves. Including 3rd party stuff on your page is sharing data about my visit with 3rd party. So I'll block all 3rd party stuff by default, with manual exceptions
Re:We moved our servers to Iceland by skrebbel on Saturday March 30, 2019 @01:33AM (#19527955)
> There is no arguing this.

Yes there is. SimpleAnalytics claim that they "don’t track visitors of our customers’ websites".

Are they lying? If not, how is it a tracking script?

Re:We moved our servers to Iceland by satori99 on Saturday March 30, 2019 @02:03AM (#19528031)
I guess they mean that they aggregate data? rather than storing it for individuals users?

Otherwise, why do they need your browser to make a request in the first place?

FWIW I agree with dylz. It is crazy to suggest that any company doing analytics has any sort of right to make my software connect to its servers.

If Easylist did not block all unnecessary requests, I would find a list that did.

Re:We moved our servers to Iceland by dagenix on Saturday March 30, 2019 @02:38AM (#19528135)
> It is crazy to suggest that any company doing analytics has any sort of right to make my software connect to its servers.

No analytics company has a right to make you connect to its servers. But, that isn't the case at all: You visit some website. The operator of that website has contracted with the analytics company. You ask the website for some information and it replies with that information as well as a request to ping the analytics company that the website contracted with. It's apparently "crazy" to comply with that request, all while still consuming the information that you asked for and received.

Ad-blockers wouldn't be controversial if they worked by navigating away from any site that displayed ads or included a tracker. Of course, that would be inconvenient for the user, so, they don't do that. The whole point of an ad-blocker is to allow a user to consume a service in a manner that the entity running and paying for the service didn't intend. We could at least acknowledge that. Your position, however, seems to be that doing what the service you are using is asking you to do in exchange for its information is "crazy" - and that is straight up ridiculous.

Re:We moved our servers to Iceland by satori99 on Saturday March 30, 2019 @02:53AM (#19528195)
I understand your viewpoint, but I consider all script tags that a server provides to be merely suggestions.

A browser is, after all, a user-agent. The web was designed this way for a reason.

Would I be breaking some sort of inferred agreement if I browsed with no Javascript enabled at all?

In any case, a site server logs should provide ample information for analytics, unless they are measuring mouse movements or scrolling etc.

Re:We moved our servers to Iceland by crankylinuxuser on Saturday March 30, 2019 @10:34AM (#19529594)
Just wait until that official DRM crap is used for adtech and preventing you from modifying the HTML the server sends.

This is a war; a never-ending war of users VS adtech. I realize how much defense I have to run to protect mtself even moderately, and I'm still losing.

Re:We moved our servers to Iceland by kuzehanka on Saturday March 30, 2019 @10:55AM (#19529703)
> Ad-blockers wouldn't be controversial

Adblockers are not controversial. Stop pushing adtech narrative and passing it off as an established fact. HN is the last place on earth where people would fall for this kind of crap.

The internet was built to decentralise and make information globally available. It wasn't built for some morally bankrupt interest groups to turn a profit. The http protocol is explicitly in favour of user control over content.

Re:We moved our servers to Iceland by literallycancer on Saturday March 30, 2019 @08:07AM (#19529008)
I get to decide what runs on my hardware. There is nothing ridiculous about that.

Ad blockers are not controversial, even if the ad industry would like them to be.

Re:We moved our servers to Iceland by TeMPOraL on Saturday March 30, 2019 @07:33AM (#19528907)
> Ad-blockers wouldn't be controversial if they worked by navigating away from any site that displayed ads or included a tracker. Of course, that would be inconvenient for the user, so, they don't do that. The whole point of an ad-blocker is to allow a user to consume a service in a manner that the entity running and paying for the service didn't intend. We could at least acknowledge that.

It's the other way around. The HTTP protocol and supporting web standards were designed from grounds-up to allow and encourage the kind of things an ad-blocker does. The browser acts on behalf of the user (hence the term "user agent"). Links in a HTML response are information, "there is something related over there", not a command "you must go there"[0].

The right way to solve ad-blockers is for sites to comply with the protocol they're operating under - to refuse delivering a resource, with 402 or 403 code, until payment is provided, or an ad is displayed. AKA "the paywall". The controversy only exists because many website operators prefer to be dishonest and manipulative - they post content that they mark as free giveaway, but simultaneously demand compensation. They stir up drama of how ad-blockers are immoral, whereas in reality, blocking ads is "playing by the rules" and it's them who are in violation of human decency.

> Your position, however, seems to be that doing what the service you are using is asking you to do in exchange for its information is "crazy" - and that is straight up ridiculous.

It's not crazy. But it's also not required by any technology, law or custom. Thing is, the service is asking the wrong way. HTTP protocol was created with means for asking to do something. Like, by responding with 402 Payment Required or 403 Forbidden and some instructions on what you want the user to do, instead of responding with 200 OK + content + guilt-tripping popups and pretending to be victim in news articles.

--

[0] - Want the "command mode" web? Invent your own, DRMed one. Because otherwise what you're doing is, again, trying to have your cake and eat it too - putting your content on the public web to gain free audience, and then refusing to play by public web's rules.

Re:We moved our servers to Iceland by jimktrains2 on Saturday March 30, 2019 @06:35AM (#19528757)
How do you feel about older screen readers that don't handle JavaScript well and probably won't load the ads (which probably aren't accessible anyway) to read them to the user? Has the user "stolen" or simply used their _user-agent_ to do what is best and most accessible for them?
Re:We moved our servers to Iceland by TelmoMenezes on Saturday March 30, 2019 @06:34AM (#19528752)
> The whole point of an ad-blocker is to allow a user to consume a service in a manner that the entity running and paying for the service didn't intend. We could at least acknowledge that.

It's kind of funny that that was, originally, the very definition of "hacking", and we are in a site called "hacker news". But moving on...

The adtech industry got in its head that it can just arrive in a place that already existed (the Internet) and start inventing implicit contracts. It reminds me of the "nice guy" that does some nice gesture for a woman he likes and then gets outraged when the "implicit contract" for sex is not honored.

Hosting is not even that expensive. You know what's expensive? "SEO", buying traffic, in short polluting the very environment where you exist. That is the sort of thing many companies will do with their ad money. They do what they can to place themselves between me and the stuff I want to talk/read about, and then act all outraged when I take counter-measures against their spying and manipulation attempts. That's rich.

I hope EasyList continues to do its job of acting on behalf of the users and does not get swayed by bullshit.

Re:We moved our servers to Iceland by auslander on Saturday March 30, 2019 @10:43AM (#19529641)
> I hope EasyList continues to do its job of acting on behalf of the users and does not get swayed by bullshit

They often bend over though. I don't remember specific one, maybe amp-analytics.google.com. Also removed some anti-adblock thing after DCMA complaint.

You have to use several lists, like uBO does.

Re:We moved our servers to Iceland by tylerl on Saturday March 30, 2019 @09:24AM (#19529272)
They can both be right.

"Tracking" has never been very well defined. It just means something like, "collecting data we don't think you should collect."

If you want something more specific, lots of conflicting definitions do exist, but nothing that people can agree on.

Re:We moved our servers to Iceland by auslander on Saturday March 30, 2019 @10:37AM (#19529607)
It is a 3rd party collecting data about my browsing history. Give me one reason why I should not block it, please.
Re:We moved our servers to Iceland by tinus_hn on Saturday March 30, 2019 @06:06PM (#19532210)
They don’t track customers, and they respect ‘do not track’. One of these must be wrong.
Re:We moved our servers to Iceland by VoxPelli on Saturday March 30, 2019 @10:54AM (#19529697)
I think it would be useful to differentiate between “user trackers” and something like a “site tracker”.

A “user tracker” sets cookies and follows a user around, knowing what the user have or have not done before.

A “site tracker” (bad wording I know) follows what happens to a site, what device types accesses it etc.

Sure, making direct requests to the analytics servers exposes IP and possibility to somewhat track the user. Tracking based on IP is pretty inefficient though, due to shared IP-addresses, IP-address changes when jumping between networks, VPN:s.

Ideally SimpleAnalytics would provide a tiny proxy/washing script that one can host on ones own server and which one includes on ones site rather than including it directly from SimpleAnalytics servers. That way one can guarantee ones users that no IP-address is leaked to a third party (which would also make a Data Processing Agreement completely unnecessary from a GDPR perspective)