News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Facebook to ban white nationalist content by raxxorrax on Thursday March 28, 2019 @04:43AM (#19510393)
I can give you hundreds of examples of people being accused of being a white nationalist without any merit to it. To such a degree that this word almost lost its meaning.

edit: Tim Pool for example was already accused. It will clearly be used to shut down unwelcome dissent.

Re:Facebook to ban white nationalist content by pmarreck on Thursday March 28, 2019 @11:51AM (#19513384)
A while back, my leftist circles kept repeating ad nauseam that Peter Thiel (who is already in a minority, being gay) is a white nationalist. I suspected bullshit and decided to look into it.

All I could find was this: Peter Thiel once spoke at a libertarian conference. Libertarians, being libertarians, permit racism (read: not the same as "support racism"). THEREFORE, PETER THIEL IS A WHITE NATIONALIST.

Are you fucking serious? I pushed back on my leftist friends with what I found. "Duhhhhh, errrrrr, ummmmm, well... everyone just knows he is!" Oh, really.

Bullshit, repeated often enough as truth, becomes evidence for itself.

Re:Facebook to ban white nationalist content by pmarreck on Thursday March 28, 2019 @02:28PM (#19515096)
Honest question, why is this getting downvoted?
Re:Facebook to ban white nationalist content by zymhan on Thursday March 28, 2019 @03:22PM (#19515609)
Because it's a straw man argument. GP (you) is talking about some argument their friends made, not something anyone in this thread has said.
Re:Facebook to ban white nationalist content by pmarreck on Friday March 29, 2019 @09:14AM (#19521316)
But it was a related example of how echo chambers can corrupt the truth
Re:Facebook to ban white nationalist content by namlem on Friday March 29, 2019 @04:54PM (#19525593)
Ok but have any of these falsely accused actually had their account removed?
Re:Facebook to ban white nationalist content by mike10010100 on Thursday March 28, 2019 @10:47AM (#19512676)
> I can give you hundreds of examples of people being accused of being a white nationalist without any merit to it.

Feel free to do so whenever. Be sure to indicate when that has resulted in serious consequences for the "victim".

> Tim Pool for example was already accused.

TBF Tim Pool pulled the whole "I'm so neutral" act when dealing with a bunch of actual white supremacists. What "dissent" was unwelcome there? That he was pretending like these were totally fine people who just happened to think that genocide was okay?

[dead]
Re:Facebook to ban white nationalist content by mike10010100 on Thursday March 28, 2019 @02:28PM (#19515091)
> just out of interest... such as?

Enjoy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQF2-F-GG_o

And here he is with a bunch of others!

https://i.imgur.com/SXqc8PX.jpg

> You could be really helpful here, sugar.

And you could tone down the condescension, sweetie.

Re:Facebook to ban white nationalist content by jl2718 on Thursday March 28, 2019 @01:01PM (#19514145)
I don’t know the facts behind either argument, but now a minimum-wage content moderator has to make this decision 1000 times a day.

Good luck, kid.

Re:Facebook to ban white nationalist content by AsyncAwait on Thursday March 28, 2019 @05:54AM (#19510683)
Before we make this into 'conservatives being silenced', it's worth pointing out that the censorship problem also exists for leftists outlets that are left of the neoliberal centrist view of the D.C. Democratic Party.
Re:Facebook to ban white nationalist content by raxxorrax on Thursday March 28, 2019 @06:11AM (#19510773)
Taking a stand against content moderation was a fundamental leftist position some years ago...

That said, I absolutely agree that leftist positions do get censored. Even if I currently like to underline my dissociation with its authoritarian excesses and general dishonesty on certain subjects, the problem is a general one.

Re:Facebook to ban white nationalist content by pas on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @06:08PM (#19559053)
Unrestricted free speech was always a strange issue. Hitchens' very eloquently presented how control of speech was used to suppress a lot of groups, and he knew about the dangers of radicalization, incitement, hate speech, but considered those negatives acceptable.

However not everyone thinks that it's so great.

I don't know, and it's probably not something we can just settle easily.

It's usually true, that a society cannot simply rely on "laws" to save it, and when the power imbalance get too extreme, then laws won't save anyone anyway. Though it seems having some kind of policy and publicly agreed way to stop serial inciters is not a bad idea. After all information censorship generally happens through claims of potential national security hazards and other gag orders, not by a too wide interpretation of hate speech laws. (But of course human creativity is pretty limitless when it comes to suppressing others.)

Re:Facebook to ban white nationalist content by mike10010100 on Thursday March 28, 2019 @10:47AM (#19512680)
> the censorship problem also exists for leftists outlets that are left of the neoliberal centrist view of the D.C. Democratic Party.

Which ones, specifically?

Re:Facebook to ban white nationalist content by oarabbus_ on Thursday March 28, 2019 @05:23PM (#19516771)
such as...
Re:Facebook to ban white nationalist content by AsyncAwait on Thursday March 28, 2019 @08:08PM (#19517930)
Jimmy Dore, Max Blumenthal, Rania Khalek, Aaron Maté, Michael Tracey, Abby Martin, Matt Taibbi, Katie Halper, Ben Norton, Lee Camp, Ilhan Omar, Mark Ames etc.

There are many, just some off the top of my head.

Re:Facebook to ban white nationalist content by paulddraper on Thursday March 28, 2019 @08:33PM (#19518064)
I'm only familiar with a couple of those names.

Who/what de-platformed Jimmy Dore (here's his YouTube channel; [1])? Or the rest?

[1] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3M7l8ved_rYQ45AVzS0RGA

Re:Facebook to ban white nationalist content by AsyncAwait on Thursday March 28, 2019 @09:04PM (#19518249)
He's been smeared in CNN & Washington Post articles as a crank and conspiracy theorist who runs 'an extremist channel' who should face consequences, has videos constantly demonetized and de-ranked etc.

His channel is not 'deleted', (as is the case with the majority of right-wing commentators as well btw), but it is very much 'shadowbanned'/blacklisted, (economic ruin).

I for example regularly notice the recommendation algorithm skews a lot more towards the centre & right actually even when I am specifically looking for Jimmy Dore videos.

People like Rania Khalek, Abby Martin... were even more explicitly interrogated by the likes of CNN, had their Facebook pages taken down etc.

On Twitter, a lot of them don't even come up in the search results, effectively shadowbanned.

Of course, none of them would be invited on mainstream TV because their viewpoint is not allowed in 'polite circles'.

This is why I have a huge issue with the right simplistically equating D.C. Democrats with 'the left'. I suppose the division is as to what do you care about, social leftism, (identity politics), which is easy & lazy and what many on the right focus on vs economic leftism, which is what many of those I named discuss and is not really allowed on mainstream media.

Re:Facebook to ban white nationalist content by paulddraper on Thursday March 28, 2019 @09:58PM (#19518511)
For me, Twitter's results for "Dore" show Jimmy Dore as the #3 result [1], following two handles with many more followers.

Contrast that to "Limbaugh", for which Rush Limbaugh is the (buried) #11 result, despite having 2x the followers anything else.

[1] https://twitter.com/search?q=Dore&src=typed_query

[2] https://twitter.com/search?q=limbaugh&src=typed_query

Re:Facebook to ban white nationalist content by AsyncAwait on Friday March 29, 2019 @05:34AM (#19520216)
He's the very first Twitter account suggested when I type 'limbaugh' into the search [1].

In Moments, there's a lot of other people talking about him, so that's what's shown, (also a lot more notable Limbaughs, as that's a pretty common surname), whereas Dore is pretty much just him, not that many other people are talking. That's how Moments always worked, nothing shady there. It's also true if you put i.e. 'Taylor Swift' in Moments, her actual Twitter account is fairly buried, because there's lots of other buzz that the algo deemed more relevant.

If anything, it speaks to his popularity.

And that's despite him not having a verified account, which are deranked for everyone over verified ones. Type in ie 'Sean Hannity' and you'd see his verified account right up.

Perhaps it's time to admit that the simplistic narrative of 'left censoring the right' is not really true and it's more complex than that. It's really the establishment silencing alternative voices.

The right is more than happy to censor the left on BDS, for example, (with the help of the Democrats even(!)) & cement that into law. I don't see any of the right-wing 'free speech worriers', like Ben Shapiro talk about how wrong that is. In fact they very much support it.

On the other hand, you have left-wing channels like Dore & Secular Talk constantly bring up how it's wrong to censor right-wing voices, even doing long rants on specific cases.

1 - https://imgur.com/a/UfCf9vF

Re:Facebook to ban white nationalist content by mike10010100 on Friday March 29, 2019 @09:14AM (#19521321)
> His channel is not 'deleted', (as is the case with the majority of right-wing commentators as well btw), but it is very much 'shadowbanned'/blacklisted, (economic ruin).

And, as we all know, nobody ever made money off of extremist political commentary before YouTube, right kids?

FFS he has his own website and show. Just because YouTube doesn't give him money doesn't mean he's persecuted. He can feel free to host his videos elsewhere.

> (economic ruin).

Hyperbole alert!

> People like Rania Khalek, Abby Martin... were even more explicitly interrogated by the likes of CNN, had their Facebook pages taken down etc.

Please cite some sources. I'm not really finding any info.