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Re:Facebook to ban white nationalist content by grawprog on Wednesday March 27, 2019 @04:14PM (#19505524)
I'm going to respond to this comment because my response is just kind of in general to the whole conversation this spawned.

In what way is facebook more of a public space than hacker news, reddit or any public forum, message board or website where users can sign up and post content?

You couldn't post a bunch of white nationalist comments here or on most other sites without getting banned.

Why would and should facebook be treated differently than other websites? Having a large amount users and money doesn't suddenly make them a public entity. The fact people use their real names and identities doesn't(they're not the only site that does this). Them tracking you across multiple websites and aggregating and selling your data doesn't either.

What is it about facebook that causes people to have this misconception?

If this were ISP's, DNS providers, even hosting providers really shouldn't be able to(as far as i'm concerned, but that's a different discussion and does happen), but facebook doing this is the same as any other website that allows user discussions and user content setting rules.

There's an internet outside of facebook. People making the choice to reside entirely there doesn't automatically make them any different than other websites.

It's the users that choose to give them this power over things by using their service. Though...i know not entirely not entirely...pre installs on phones and things like the free data facebook messaging in the Philipines puts things outside.individual users control sometimes. But that's on poor government regulation and other phone manufacturers.

And...i'm not a big fan of facebook. I find them shady and greatly distrust them. But, part of that is because I understand they're a shady private corporation with zero obligation to the public. Pretending otherwise is unhelpful.

Re:Facebook to ban white nationalist content by acid__ on Wednesday March 27, 2019 @06:50PM (#19507013)
One thing that I've been thinking about, and I'm curious on your thoughts on, is Facebook's "Internet.org" project.

If you're not familiar, Facebook is offering low-cost (or free) internet access in less developed countries to a hand-picked selection of sites [0] and has roughly 100m users. [1]

It's been argued that they're essentially acting as an ISP and are significantly violating the principles of net neutrality. [2]

You say "people [are] making the choice to reside entirely there", but for millions of people around the world, Facebook is the only social media platform available to them at a reasonable cost.

Should operating this platform be enough to treat them differently? I could see arguments both ways.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet.org

[1] https://techcrunch.com/2018/04/25/internet-org-100-million/

[2] https://www.theverge.com/2017/7/27/16050446/facebook-net-neu...

Re:Facebook to ban white nationalist content by grawprog on Wednesday March 27, 2019 @08:50PM (#19507984)
I've never heard of that specific program. The only one like that I really knew about was the free data stuff in the Philipines because of a friend of mine there. I know in that specific instance it comes down to basically non-existent regulation over carriers and ISP's and a lack of any real choice.

If Facebook is becoming a defacto ISP in countries it should be subject to the same regulations and really should be required to follow net neutrality rules. Though I don't think those exist in a lot of developing countries(or I guess America also...).

In the end though, it's those country's governments allowing facebook to do this.

These are my realistic thoughts on the matter.

My own personal thoughts...

That shit's downright evil. Government's should absolutely not be allowing facebook to do this. But I feel the same way about ISP's in general owning content providers and favouring their own services.

This practice would be the same as Ford or gm owning a bunch of gas stations and giving preferential prices to drivers of Ford or gm vehicles. I honestly don't understand why it's looked at differently when it comes to internet companies or technology in general.

If a social media company wants to be an ISP or a an ISP wants to be a content provider or host, they really should not be able to give preferential treatment to their own content and companies that do this should be scrutinized heavily for bullshit.

Re:Facebook to ban white nationalist content by o10449366 on Wednesday March 27, 2019 @07:01PM (#19507121)
I think it's because Facebook is both more visible and personal than other platforms. Horrible, racist, violent, and outright evil content has existed on the internet since its inception. The difference is that journalists don't browse 4Chan and I imagine when people see content on anonymous forums they're better able to rationalize it because they can come up with a multitude of excuses for the poster. It's a little more surreal to see "real" people openly and publicly calling for the extermination of non-Aryan people.

I think that's why Facebook has been getting more criticism and attention in the media than Reddit or Twitter, despite wielding comparable social influence. On the flipside, I also think that's why people are more outraged about the "censorship" issue. If you ban a Reddit user you're just banning some username. If you ban someone on Facebook, you're banishing a person and stifling their voice.

The slippery slope arguments are sensationalist. Facebook had many motivations for implementing this policy, some of them undoubtedly motivated by money, but ultimately I would argue they implemented it because American and western society pushed them to. To the extent that western society has unequivocally decided that racism is very bad and not good, this policy change will also not push us over the edge into total censorship because that's not what we want (and I think it would be difficult to take the stance that that's the direction we're heading in.)

Re:Facebook to ban white nationalist content by naasking on Wednesday March 27, 2019 @10:07PM (#19508488)
> Why would and should facebook be treated differently than other websites? Having a large amount users and money doesn't suddenly make them a public entity.

Because FB is not targeted at specific communities of people like HN, and less so reddit, it's welcome to everyone. Everyone is in fact actively encouraged to join. That's their mission. Private spaces that are open to the public often have first amendment protections:

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=139661

Re:Facebook to ban white nationalist content by lazugod on Wednesday March 27, 2019 @08:30PM (#19507813)
I would think it has to do with the invisible/nonexistent/impersonal nature of Facebook moderation.

If there’s no face, if the site is designed so you never feel like a guest on someone else’s website, you'll assume you’re in control of the social rules.