>What I find many times here is a belief in pure systems ruled by logic and strict interpretations of language (again, programmer logic), while real life and politics are nothing like that.

Again, this is where you’re running into problems. You’re confusing among other things, the branding with the reality. The DPRK has “democratic” in the name, but so what? Even in less blatant departures from the spirit of the thing, democracy in practice takes many forms. No one (I hope) thinks they live in an Athenian democracy, so what kind of democracy are we talking about? Usually it’s a buzzword interchangeable with “free society” which is another buzzword.

For example, the U.S. styles itself as the world’s leading democracy, but that’s branding again. In reality it is nominally a federated system of indirect representative republics. The U.K. also considers itself a leading democracy, but in practice we’re a constitutional monarchy where power mostly rests in a parliamentary system and civil service.

In short, talking only in terms of buzzwords means that we can project whatever desires we want on “democracy” or “freedom” when the reality is complex.

> You’re confusing among other things, the branding with the reality.

I have no idea how you got that idea considering I just wrote that the systems we call democracies may not be all that democratic in reality.

That’s not what I’m saying. Rather it’s a problem that “democratic” is largely an unhelpful term which obscures rather than reveals anything about a political system.

Only if you choose to ignore its actual meaning and insist on treating it as a buzzword.

You’re going in circles here. You define democracy in nebulous terms that have little or no bearing on any self-styled democracy since Ancient Greece. If that’s your standard for democracy, then of course the whole world falls short and this ceases to be an interesting or productive discussion for exactly the reasons I raised in my original post. Beyond giving a demonstration of just what I’ve come to expect and dread from political “discourse” here, is there anything else you’re going for?

If this boils down to Europe not being your idea of democratic now, and for the entirety of its history, then you’re making no point at all.