News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Twitter forces all new users to enter a valid phone number by packet_nerd on Monday March 25, 2019 @08:08PM (#19488010)
My wife and I cancelled our phone services a while back to save money since we rarely if ever have to call anyone and just use messaging to keep in touch with each other and friends.

What are people like us supposed to do?

I do have a Google voice number, but I noticed one or two places recently that won't accept that anymore.

Re:Twitter forces all new users to enter a valid phone number by H1Supreme on Monday March 25, 2019 @08:18PM (#19488059)
> I do have a Google voice number, but I noticed one or two places recently that won't accept that anymore.

Mind sharing where? I've use my Google Voice number exclusively for 6 or 7 years now. Can't say I've ever ran into such a thing.

Re:Twitter forces all new users to enter a valid phone number by brownbat on Monday March 25, 2019 @10:00PM (#19488653)
Sites that require phone number verification often block numbers allocated for VoIP services for fear of spammers. YMMV if you've tethered your GV number to a physical device at some point.

I've run into this semi-frequently over the years, and it's always extremely frustrating when it happens, but somehow I can't remember exactly where either.

Old references online point to Facebook, Line, and Snapchat: https://www.reddit.com/r/Googlevoice/comments/3uv3mt/google_...

Re:Twitter forces all new users to enter a valid phone number by elektor on Monday March 25, 2019 @11:11PM (#19488969)
I can back this claim up. I was unable to verify my Citi credit card over the phone using my Google Voice number, they insisted on a non-VoIP number which ultimately delayed the verification process by a week.
Re:Twitter forces all new users to enter a valid phone number by o10449366 on Tuesday March 26, 2019 @12:53AM (#19489393)
FWIW I may have just signed up at the right time, but both my Facebook and Snapchat are tied to my GV number and I've never had any issues.
Re:Twitter forces all new users to enter a valid phone number by packet_nerd on Monday March 25, 2019 @08:33PM (#19488151)
I don't remember honestly, but I was looking for a site to do my taxes when I saw the last one. I didn't finish signing up. It mentioned not supporting "voice over IP" numbers, or something to that effect. I wish I'd taken a screenshot.
Re:Twitter forces all new users to enter a valid phone number by eeeeeeeeeeeee on Monday March 25, 2019 @09:46PM (#19488569)
It’s happened to me a few times with my Gvoice number. Which is really annoying because this is why I use it.

It usually gives no specific information about why it failed, but then I use my main mobile number and it works fine.

Re:Twitter forces all new users to enter a valid phone number by xur17 on Monday March 25, 2019 @10:53PM (#19488896)
It used to happen for me on Telegram (I think it's been fixed within the last year though), and recently a startup (Mealplan) blocked it because it's a "voip" number. I even tried emailing and explaining, but they just said they don't support it.
Re:Twitter forces all new users to enter a valid phone number by echelon on Monday March 25, 2019 @08:30PM (#19488125)
Tinder won't accept Google Voice numbers. That kept me off their platform for years.
Re:Twitter forces all new users to enter a valid phone number by Sylamore on Monday March 25, 2019 @11:27PM (#19489061)
Microsoft won't take any known voip account for an Azure registration, which created a minor challenge for me as all my numbers are google voice only as well.
Re:Twitter forces all new users to enter a valid phone number by rdbell on Monday March 25, 2019 @08:50PM (#19488252)
Craigslist is one recent example that I came across.
Re:Twitter forces all new users to enter a valid phone number by throwaway5r09 on Monday March 25, 2019 @11:11PM (#19488970)
Another is Credit Karma. And others have said Zelle no longer allows it.

Would love if someone made a list so those that have moved to VoIP wouldn’t need to waste time.

Re:Twitter forces all new users to enter a valid phone number by crummy on Monday March 25, 2019 @10:52PM (#19488893)
WhatsApp.
Re:Twitter forces all new users to enter a valid phone number by Carpetsmoker on Monday March 25, 2019 @09:00PM (#19488319)
I have a prepaid account, which is basically free after the initial investment, which is usually just a few €/$/£/etc.

If you're careful enough it can also be reasonably anonymous.

Re:Twitter forces all new users to enter a valid phone number by packet_nerd on Monday March 25, 2019 @09:49PM (#19488589)
> reasonably anonymous

The signup process has always been quite invasive for me. Is it possible get a phone in the states without handing over your SS, name, and DoB? I've never tried; what happens if you give bogus info?

Re:Twitter forces all new users to enter a valid phone number by Carpetsmoker on Monday March 25, 2019 @10:51PM (#19488887)
I don't know about the United States as I've not been, but in every other country I've gotten a SIM it's been a matter of picking it up and the store and handing over money, same as if you're buying, say, deodrant. You can top up money anonymously too by buying prepaid vouchers.

I've certainly never had to hand over stuff like social security number (wtf?), but perhaps laws and/or telcos are different in U.S.

Re:Twitter forces all new users to enter a valid phone number by packet_nerd on Monday March 25, 2019 @11:06PM (#19488945)
My family lived in Thailand when I was teenager, and this is how it worked there until just before we left (around 2013) there was a new law or something, and you actually had to physically go to a place, fill out a form, and show your passport just to get the stupid sim unlocked. At least in the US you can do it online or through the phone.
Re:Twitter forces all new users to enter a valid phone number by acct1771 on Monday March 25, 2019 @09:54PM (#19488626)
Prepaid cards..?
Re:Twitter forces all new users to enter a valid phone number by seppin on Monday March 25, 2019 @09:02PM (#19488331)
there is no real prepaid in the US, the closest is USMoble which is still around 20 US a month
Re:Twitter forces all new users to enter a valid phone number by warp on Monday March 25, 2019 @10:14PM (#19488728)
t-mobile has a USD 3/month pay-as-you-go plan.

(I don't live in the US, but keep a T-mobile sim card active for when I travel there).

Re:Twitter forces all new users to enter a valid phone number by MiddleEndian on Monday March 25, 2019 @08:59PM (#19488309)
If I weren't so attached to my number I'd probably ditch phone service too. Do you have issues with Google Voice needing another phone number?
Re:Twitter forces all new users to enter a valid phone number by packet_nerd on Monday March 25, 2019 @09:19PM (#19488417)
Haven't so far, but I know a real number is required to sign up, so who knows how long it will work..
Re:Twitter forces all new users to enter a valid phone number by criddell on Monday March 25, 2019 @08:20PM (#19488065)
If there are enough people like you, I'm sure they'll find some way to accommodate you. Maybe they will accept a scan of your passport or ask for a bank account number or some other piece of data that makes it at least a tiny bit harder to open an account.
Re:Twitter forces all new users to enter a valid phone number by hombre_fatal on Monday March 25, 2019 @08:38PM (#19488181)
> Maybe they will accept a scan of your passport

It won't be long before https://haveibeenpwned.com/ will let you type in your driver's license or passport number and tell you if a scan of it has been leaked.

Re:Twitter forces all new users to enter a valid phone number by packet_nerd on Monday March 25, 2019 @08:57PM (#19488298)
There has got to be a better way to do online identity as a society! The most promising ideas I've heard about are WebAuthn and Estonia's digital identity system. How long is it going to take to get out of the dark ages and get this right?

One thing I'm sure of, uploading a scan of my passport to every website is not an appealing thought. Besides the inconvenience, do I really want my passport spread around on dozens/hundreds of different high-value servers run by who-knows-who?

Re:Twitter forces all new users to enter a valid phone number by baroffoos on Monday March 25, 2019 @09:11PM (#19488372)
There isn't any good way to maintain perfect privacy while also rejecting bots/trolls with 20 accounts.
Re:Twitter forces all new users to enter a valid phone number by packet_nerd on Monday March 25, 2019 @09:41PM (#19488542)
Here's an idea that I thought of..

Suppose WebAuthn was the standard authentication scheme everywhere. People used a series of tokens (Yubikeys, phone apps, etc.) with private keys which they use to authenticate to services. The government runs a department where you present them proof of your identity and the public keys from your Yubikeys/whatever, and they would publish a cryptographically signed electronic message which read the equivalent of "the owner of the private keys associated with public keys a, b, and c is a real person"). Then, when you signed up for an account at Twitter, or wherever, they could quickly check that published list and know that you where a real person.

Advantages, you own your own private keys and completely manage your online identity. The government doesn't have any control over where you log in, or who you sign up for accounts with. Also, you can remain anonymous to the site you sign up to. They can check that you're a real person and only signed up once, without actually knowing your real name or other details.

Re:Twitter forces all new users to enter a valid phone number by baroffoos on Monday March 25, 2019 @10:29PM (#19488800)
This still doesn't allow for the case where you have multiple accounts for valid reasons like keeping personal and professional accounts but neither does a phone number so this is still an improvement.

I think the main thing blocking this is its a huge pain to go through this system when the average person doesn't care that facebook and twitter have their phone number

Re:Twitter forces all new users to enter a valid phone number by packet_nerd on Monday March 25, 2019 @10:55PM (#19488899)
> huge pain

The current system is a huge pain too...

I have 700+ accounts recorded in my password manager. Organizing, managing, occasionally changing passwords on important ones, etc. etc. takes a non-trivial amount of time and dedication!

And it's way way harder for many people who never got a system down, something I'm reminded of every time I visit my grandparents.. :-) Their main email account used to be an old ISP one that they'd payed for for years, and for whatever reason (I couldn't figure out why) it stopped working with some sites. Without that email account they lost access to a bank account, several credit card accounts, and some other stuff, and I ended up walking them through setting up a gmail account and calling in to change the email associated with all those accounts. Well, I used their landline phone to help set up the gmail account, and this year they moved, no longer have that phone number, and lost access to that account. I tried to help recover it, but wasn't successful. Guess what... they had to repeat the process for the bank and all those credit cards.

Re:Twitter forces all new users to enter a valid phone number by acct1771 on Monday March 25, 2019 @10:00PM (#19488657)
This reminded me of something I recently learned of, SQRL, a 77 digit numerical identity for web service authentication.
Re:Twitter forces all new users to enter a valid phone number by tzs on Monday March 25, 2019 @11:02PM (#19488931)
NOTE: in the following when I talk about "digital cash" systems I am not talking about blockchains!

It might be possible to do something based on one of the centralized "digital cash" systems that cryptographers have developed. A typical system allows some central entity (e.g., a bank) to issue a "digital dollar".

The digital dollar can be transferred to a merchant in such a way that the merchant can turn it back in to the bank, and the bank (1) can recognize that it corresponds to one they issued, (2) can tell that it has not previously been turned in, and (3) gets no information whatsoever about who they originally issued it to.

So suppose some entity that people trusted revealing their identity to provided a service where you prove your identity to them, and they use a digital cash system to issue you a token. You can redeem that token at Twitter, which verifies it with the issuer, and if it is valid and not previously redeemed, lets you create an account with no further need for identification.

The token issuing entity does end up with a list of real identities of Twitter users, but has no way to match those to Twitter accounts. (Or rather, they have the identities of people who asked for Twitter account creation tokens...they have no way of knowing if a given person ever actually went ahead and created an account).

If your Twitter account gets banned and you want another one, you'll either have to try to go through the token issuer again, and they can see that a token was already issued using your real identity and refuse. You'll have to do something like get other people who don't have Twitter accounts to use their real identities to get tokens, and then give those to you.

That was just an off the cuff idea, to suggest some possibilities, and based on the capabilities of the earliest digital cash systems. I bet you could design a more sophisticated system where the token issuing entity works with multiple sites, and can't tell which site you are getting a token for, but can still limit you to one account per site.

Re:Twitter forces all new users to enter a valid phone number by zrm on Tuesday March 26, 2019 @01:29AM (#19489509)
You don't even need the token issuer to have government identities, you just need some way of rationing tokens.

Using identities for that is actually somewhat problematic because identity theft is generally pretty easy. The attacker compromises many devices, or a database containing the information of millions of people necessary to impersonate any of them to the token issuer. Then not only does the attacker get a large number of tokens, a large number of people also lose the ability to sign up for the service themselves. It also opens you up to deanonymization attacks if the token issuer and the site collude, or anyone else can compromise or coerce both of them at once.

But there are plenty of other alternatives.

You could ration them based on some other scarce thing, e.g. issue only X number of tokens per public IPv4 address or IPv6 /64 block per year.

You could exchange tokens for a security deposit. A few dollars for a token that can be used for over a decade is a minimal cost to a real user, but a few dollars for a token that lasts 90 seconds before getting banned is a real cost to the spammer.

And you can combine them. One free token per public IPv4 address per month, and if you need more then provide a security deposit.

Re:Twitter forces all new users to enter a valid phone number by zrm on Monday March 25, 2019 @09:47PM (#19488578)
There is proof of stake. You stake some moderate amount ($25), refundable at any time but forfeit if you spam. For a non-spammer it effectively costs nothing but the spammer loses their stake for every spam someone reports, and every spam posted against the same stake can be disabled at once.

The requirement obviously being the ability to make small anonymous payments.

Re:Twitter forces all new users to enter a valid phone number by criddell on Tuesday March 26, 2019 @08:46AM (#19491246)
Post a bond? I like this idea a lot.

I think it would be great for Twitter if they could get away from the advertising model. If holding a Twitter account required holding a share of Twitter stock, I wonder if users could end up owning the platform?