I understand that many people need medications to help tune the brain back to more of a normal range, and it's great that meds are available to help them.

A general question I've been wondering about -- ever since it seemed half of some CS departments' undergrads were on meds, at the start of the dotcom bubble -- is what are the costs to discretionary use of meds as performance enhancers, by people who don't have abnormal brain situations to start with?

I'd like to know in general, and it might be important to public health or societal direction. But this doesn't seem the kind of thing that a non-researcher/doctor can ask individuals about, since it can be extremely personal.

My understanding is at worst they don’t do anything useful, which is why nootropics are sort of in a legal grey area in the US but generally legal in other countries.

I'd always consider that in situations like this "do not do anything harmful" is very different than "have not currently been proven to do anything harmful". In nearly all scenarios we're still very much in the latter case than the former. We're still discovering new negative consequences of things such as acetaminophen and aspirin which we've been consuming for, at least in the later case, literally thousands of years.

And you have to keep in mind with any sort of pharmaceutical there's a major bias in research. There's billions of dollars to be made by showing that things are effective and safe. There's much less of an incentive to to show that things are ineffective or unsafe. Even for those who are genuinely completely altruistically motivated, there's far more interesting research to pursue and topics that don't come with lovely consequences such as making influential enemies within the industry you're dependent upon grants for.

Consider things like cigarettes, leaded fuel, or whatever else. There's invariably decades of "science" proving it completely harmless before some crisis points triggers a 'reevaluation'. And for things intended to interact with your cognitive abilities, if there are negative effects it's entirely possible we might never reach that crisis point as any negatives effects may likely manifest in ways that are rather less apparent than the effects of e.g. lead or tobacco consumption.

I always wonder how people buy such chemicals, and know for sure that what they receive is the exact ordered stuff with the given purity.

Indeed, there’s all kinds of reasons to want to verify received products. I’d love to have a way to test supposedly organic foods for various pesticides. If there was a book on basic chemistry needed for this kind of thing I think I’d spend a season with it as a hobby.

Reputation networks, mostly.

I have not heard of these, I'm trying 30mg vyvanse and am finding increased focus for ~6-8 hours after onset

Vyvanse is basically just amphetamine

Yes, if you're not diagnosed ADHD I would emphasize a _strong_ word of caution when even considering using amphetamines for productivity purposes.

These medications are often strong enough and have enough addiction potential that even people _with_ ADHD end up abusing them. Be careful.

What side effects are you experiencing, if any?

Hi, I am on my third week of 30mg each morning, 7-8am is when I take it, never after 8am. I was diagnosed at 23 but didn't start until 26.

Sides during first week or so: increase in blood pressure, slightly higher heart rate, decreased appetite, teeth grinding, could feel a "crash" in late afternoon, some difficulty sleeping ~1030pm

After the second week: unsure about blood pressure, body has adjusted some and I believe it to be more normal now. Heart rate still increases slightly, appetite still suppressed throughout the day (I eat a banana early and try and get ~20g protein by noon), not getting those "Crashes" that i had first week (or if anything, not so bad), I can sleep now and I am aware of the teeth grind thing but that has definately decreased.

Overall I think body adjusted to this well, may consider 40mg instead of 30mg. Don't think i'll go over 40mg personally. The focus benefit throughout the day really helps me with my productivity

Oh I should note I kept drinking coffee during all of this. When I first started (with those sides) I went from 4 to 2 cups a day. Now I'm back at around 3ish cups a day.

Idk if that helps, overall I feel great

Vyvanse is a legally controlled substance in the US, so there is plenty of information publicly available on the subject. The most common side effects off the top of my head are reduced appetite, increased blood pressure, and sleep problems.

I've been taking Vivance for years. FWIW, I had some of those side effects when I first started taking it and they have subsided for me. I still feel like I benefit from the medication and haven't ever felt like 'abusing' it.

Sounds terrific. I'll keep duking it out with my normal coffee-fueled programming.

Caffeine also has all of the listed effects.

At a much lower level. They're both stimulants, but comparing them is similar to comparing alcohol to heroin.

Are you looking to keep the caffeine and at Piracetam and Noopept to your stack, or replace the caffeine?

He might want to keep being full-stack as it's certainly valuable in today's job market.