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Re:The Adult Brain Does Grow New Neurons After All, Study Says by KaiserPro on Monday March 25, 2019 @03:59PM (#19486207)
I have always had great difficulty in believing that in the human body, _everything_ is regularly regenerated with the exception of neurons/ganglia.

The case in point is the sciatic nerve is massive, and prone to constant stresses and strains, yet supposedly never regenerates.

Re:The Adult Brain Does Grow New Neurons After All, Study Says by screye on Monday March 25, 2019 @05:13PM (#19486796)
Evolution is stupid.

Evolution doesn't try to head towards any global optima, so it is quite believable that certain things just don't work a certain way even if they sound 'obvious' to rational beings.

Re:The Adult Brain Does Grow New Neurons After All, Study Says by godelski on Monday March 25, 2019 @07:02PM (#19487592)
> Evolution doesn't try to head towards any global optima

If one even exists. I don't think you could actually say a global optima exists in a lot of cases. Since there are a lot of compounding factors and the functions aren't required to be continuous.

Re:The Adult Brain Does Grow New Neurons After All, Study Says by eanzenberg on Monday March 25, 2019 @06:56PM (#19487538)
Evolution: Requires a lot of things dying over a long period of time to get to where you are, today.
Re:The Adult Brain Does Grow New Neurons After All, Study Says by taneq on Monday March 25, 2019 @09:32PM (#19488485)
And teeth. And corneas. There are quite a few things that only last long enough to get you sufficiently past child bearing age.

Of course, old people can learn new things so I always thought the "neurons don't grow" thing was silly (although I guess it's possible that we have a set number of neurons and it's just our synapses that keep growing).

Re:The Adult Brain Does Grow New Neurons After All, Study Says by KaiserPro on Tuesday March 26, 2019 @07:47AM (#19490823)
Hmm, Teeth do regenerate, but only at a certain rate, hence holes and stuff.

Those people who loose saliva production end up loosing teeth as well, because the enamel disappears.

I have no idea about corneas.

Re:The Adult Brain Does Grow New Neurons After All, Study Says by taneq on Tuesday March 26, 2019 @11:47PM (#19498031)
Do teeth regenerate? A quick search for 'tooth enamel regeneration' turns up a bunch of pages saying it can't regenerate, and a couple about some researchers who found some treatment which does let it regenerate somewhat. I hope you're right, though.
Re:The Adult Brain Does Grow New Neurons After All, Study Says by WhiteSage on Tuesday March 26, 2019 @04:46AM (#19490132)
Auditory hair cells in the inner ear -the ones that allow us to hear sound- do regenerate in many animals but this mechanism fails in mammals. The surrounding cells try to replace them but something goes wrong and they die. This is why hearing loss is permanent, and exemplifies how stupid evolution can be at times.
Re:The Adult Brain Does Grow New Neurons After All, Study Says by agent008t on Tuesday March 26, 2019 @09:21AM (#19491503)
Are there estimates of how long it would take for humans to evolve to regenerate those cells - if specifically selected for it? Are we talking thousands of years, hundreds of thousands of years, or are there likely people alive today already that have the necessary mutations?
Re:The Adult Brain Does Grow New Neurons After All, Study Says by WhiteSage on Tuesday March 26, 2019 @03:00PM (#19494963)
I'm no expert, but there are many papers from 10 years ago where they identified a signaling gene whose concentration was not being raised enough for the neighboring cell to divide and replace the hair cell, and it was claimed that in 10 years hearing loss would have a cure. We seem to be more or less at the same point though, because it is not clear what goes wrong in the signaling pathway, or whether if that is the only issue. IMO too little is known to answer your questions.
Re:The Adult Brain Does Grow New Neurons After All, Study Says by saiya-jin on Tuesday March 26, 2019 @04:57AM (#19490171)
Evolution, AFAIK is just a random mutations happening here and there. If they bring some advantage (which good hearing in later age definitely should, but then again it covers mostly later age), harshness of life should eventually select those individuals as better survivalists.

Apparently whatever mutation happened in the past in this regard was not good enough / human still didn't survive, or it didn't happen yet. It might be funny if we discover some remote tribe actually has this regenerative mutation.

I think its question of time (maybe very long time), look at our unique ability to process lactose in adult age.

Re:The Adult Brain Does Grow New Neurons After All, Study Says by close04 on Tuesday March 26, 2019 @05:53AM (#19490387)
Anything that happens after the end of an individual’s reproductive years (perhaps also the period of raising the offsprings) stops exerting any evolutionary pressure. The fact that you have a “defect” at old age no longer blocks you from transmitting it so it can propagate through generations without evolution selecting against it. Random mutations “fixing” the gene can occur but still have to compete with the overwhelming number of non mutated “defective” genes.
Re:The Adult Brain Does Grow New Neurons After All, Study Says by 7j on Tuesday March 26, 2019 @08:11AM (#19490981)
> Anything that happens after the end of an individual’s reproductive years (perhaps also the period of raising the offsprings) stops exerting any evolutionary pressure.

This is definitely wrong. Individuals (e.g. grandparents or just random society members) can influence survival rates of other society members.

Some species(e.g. ants) even have sterile members that definitely exert evolutionary pressure.

Re:The Adult Brain Does Grow New Neurons After All, Study Says by close04 on Tuesday March 26, 2019 @02:41PM (#19494799)
I think you didn't take enough time to understand my point before being so "definitive".

Sterile ants do not exert evolutionary pressure unless they would attack weak queens before they are ready to reproduce. Evolutionary pressure (by scientific definition) is caused by things that reduce reproductive success in individuals or parts of population. Like a mutation that reduces fertility. Having the old individuals around might help relieve some of the pressure by infinitesimal amounts (helping raise offsprings) but that's about it. They cannot influence the outcome of a "defective" gene so they do not really drive evolution in any meaningful way.

Take this example. A genetic disorder that causes blindness soon after birth basically eliminates the individual from the population and the genetic defect along with it. Thus evolutionary pressure (genetic defect before the reproductive age) achieves the selection.

A genetic disorder that causes blindness at old age, any time after the next generation was raised, might also eliminate the individual but this doesn't matter as much. The gene already got passed along to the next generation(s). As long as it manifests only after reproduction then it does not reduce reproductive success, so exerts no pressure.

Or perhaps you want to take something like male impotence as an example. If humans were expected to bear offspring only in our 70s I'm certain Viagra wouldn't be a thing. Only the males that are still able to perform at that age pass along their genes, to the point where the males that can't are the exception.

I hope you can appreciate the difference in magnitude (many orders) between directly applying evolutionary pressure by removing the individual from the gene pool before the gene can be transmitted, and indirect evolutionary pressure via reduced support in society (which could conceivably affect reproductive success). For one, it stands to reason that solitary species or ones that do not form real societies would be completely unaffected by this indirect evolutionary pressure.

Re:The Adult Brain Does Grow New Neurons After All, Study Says by chongli on Monday March 25, 2019 @07:05PM (#19487616)
The case in point is the sciatic nerve is massive, and prone to constant stresses and strains, yet supposedly never regenerates.

Sciatica doesn't generally show up until people are in their 40s-50s. This is long after childbearing years for most people. At that point your sciatic nerve has done its job and gotten you across the finish line. What happens next is less important.

Re:The Adult Brain Does Grow New Neurons After All, Study Says by jimmaswell on Monday March 25, 2019 @11:27PM (#19489058)
Less important but your fitness is still relevant in terms of survival of the tribe, which is selected for since it affects the survival of any one individual.
Re:The Adult Brain Does Grow New Neurons After All, Study Says by TomMarius on Tuesday March 26, 2019 @03:15AM (#19489815)
Were there tribe members that lived in their 50s? I thought it was common to die before 40s.
Re:The Adult Brain Does Grow New Neurons After All, Study Says by saiya-jin on Tuesday March 26, 2019 @05:07AM (#19490212)
50s you can still be pretty strong and endurant, provided no accident/degenerative disease happened. I would expect tribe of anybody but mindless savages would often protect their older if only due to their experience in survival (but maybe we were pretty much mindless savages during most of our evolution). 60s is when any remaining strength takes nose dive
Re:The Adult Brain Does Grow New Neurons After All, Study Says by TomMarius on Tuesday March 26, 2019 @08:43AM (#19491227)
> 60s is when any remaining strength takes nose dive

Isn't that given modern nutrition, hygiene, water access, tooth cleaning etc?

The other commenter said that people that survived childhood during these times usually were expected to live around 54 years.

Re:The Adult Brain Does Grow New Neurons After All, Study Says by anoncake on Tuesday March 26, 2019 @03:45AM (#19489914)
Low life expectancies in the past were mostly due to high child mortality.
Re:The Adult Brain Does Grow New Neurons After All, Study Says by TomMarius on Tuesday March 26, 2019 @04:00AM (#19489966)
I know that and have accounted for that. I'm talking about prehistoric times, when we were developing.
Re:The Adult Brain Does Grow New Neurons After All, Study Says by pickpuck on Tuesday March 26, 2019 @05:04AM (#19490196)
Based on the data from modern hunter-gatherer populations, it is estimated that at 15, life expectancy was an additional 39 years (total 54), with a 0.60 probability of reaching 15.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy

Re:The Adult Brain Does Grow New Neurons After All, Study Says by abainbridge on Monday March 25, 2019 @06:56PM (#19487547)
I believe the cells in your eye's lens are not replaced. New cells are added around the outside but the old ones are never taken away / broken down. This is why our lenses become cloudy and more rigid in old age.
Re:The Adult Brain Does Grow New Neurons After All, Study Says by kypro on Monday March 25, 2019 @07:45PM (#19487885)
Same with the heart too, I believe. It isn't able to create new muscle cells in adulthood.
Re:The Adult Brain Does Grow New Neurons After All, Study Says by KaiserPro on Tuesday March 26, 2019 @07:45AM (#19490815)
I think we can simply demonstration that the heart does regenerate.

1) looking at people before and after 1 month of regular exercise.

2) healing of heart after large and invasive surgery.

Re:The Adult Brain Does Grow New Neurons After All, Study Says by abainbridge on Thursday March 28, 2019 @07:48AM (#19511234)
That is a compelling argument. But, if you Google for "heart cells don't regenerate", you find that it does appear to be a thing experts believe. And you find article like this that attempts to explain why heart cells can't regenerate: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/08/110809092102.h...
Re:The Adult Brain Does Grow New Neurons After All, Study Says by agumonkey on Tuesday March 26, 2019 @04:06AM (#19489990)
Some studies on the .. axolotl ? (limb regrowing salamanders) showed that human had similar capabilities BUT with a very fast bailout mechanism that stopped the regeneration a lot earlier.
Re:The Adult Brain Does Grow New Neurons After All, Study Says by earenndil on Monday March 25, 2019 @05:31PM (#19486922)
I thought nerves aren't regenerated either?
Re:The Adult Brain Does Grow New Neurons After All, Study Says by adrianmonk on Monday March 25, 2019 @06:56PM (#19487539)
They are sometimes. One of mine did.

I had some nerve damage a while back and went to a neurologist. He did an EMG test (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromyography) and confirmed the nerve was damaged. He used electrodes to show that it did not conduct electricity like it was supposed to, nor did it conduct electricity like the corresponding one on the other side of my body. (Somewhere, I have a printout showing voltage and latency numbers.)

He then told me that if the damage is not too great, nerves can repair themselves, that the repair proceeds outward from the brain toward the periphery of the body, and that it happens at a rate of roughly 1 millimeter per day. So, he said, my problem would probably resolve itself but it would be a long time, think 6 months or a year, maybe even longer to finally be back to 100%.

And it basically happened just like he said it would. 6 months later, it was a lot better, and it continued to gradually improve from there.

He also mentioned that using the affected muscles would help encourage healing. I think he meant the nerve itself would heal faster this way, not just that it would help reverse muscle atrophy.

Re:The Adult Brain Does Grow New Neurons After All, Study Says by holoduke on Monday March 25, 2019 @07:20PM (#19487722)
So instead of growing back the missing /damaged nerve, an entire new nerve string grew from the brains back to the original nerve? Didn't know that
Re:The Adult Brain Does Grow New Neurons After All, Study Says by adrianmonk on Monday March 25, 2019 @07:33PM (#19487808)
My layman's understanding is that a nerve is kind of a bundle of fibers wrapped in an outer layer. (Perhaps it's reasonable to compare it to a stranded wire inside an insulator, though I wouldn't say for sure.)

He said that if the outer layer is intact, the inner layer can be repaired. I'm not sure if that means more nerve fibers form or that existing nerve fibers are repaired but that the repair takes place incrementally instead of all at once. Intuitively it seems to make sense that a new fiber is growing, but I'm wary of speculating based on what seems to make sense to me.

Re:The Adult Brain Does Grow New Neurons After All, Study Says by m00x on Monday March 25, 2019 @11:14PM (#19488983)
Peripheral nerves are well known to regenerate, but the spinal nerves do not (or very limited).

We do not want nerves to regenerate in most cases because it could cause even worse results. If you start regrowing a batch of nerve, you have a chance of growing out nerves that transfer pain signals into places you don't want them to be, which could cause persistent neuropathic pain (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5290455/).

Re:The Adult Brain Does Grow New Neurons After All, Study Says by magduf on Monday March 25, 2019 @05:34PM (#19486944)
They certainly do. From a very quick google search: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/09/100927141144.h...
Re:The Adult Brain Does Grow New Neurons After All, Study Says by redcalx on Monday March 25, 2019 @07:38PM (#19487836)
I cut a nerve at the base of my middle finger one time and completely lost feeling. Feeling came back over two or three weeks as the cut healed and eventually came back 100%.
Re:The Adult Brain Does Grow New Neurons After All, Study Says by ergothus on Monday March 25, 2019 @05:36PM (#19486954)
It was thought so for a while, but recently (~10-20 years) was discovered that they do, albeit slowly.
Re:The Adult Brain Does Grow New Neurons After All, Study Says by wickedsmile on Monday March 25, 2019 @05:40PM (#19486987)
Intact I read somewhere Cannabis consumption results in Neurogenesis. I am trying to find something for citation but unable to find anything backing this claim
Re:The Adult Brain Does Grow New Neurons After All, Study Says by darkpuma on Monday March 25, 2019 @06:06PM (#19487181)
Cannabis's Schedule I status makes it difficult for legitimate researchers to debunk (or confirm) the ever growing volume of nonsense cannabis proponents put forward to support legalization. Which ironically, is a pretty good argument for rescheduling it at least.
Re:The Adult Brain Does Grow New Neurons After All, Study Says by meko on Monday March 25, 2019 @07:36PM (#19487828)
Claims of legitimacy aside, The CBD portion of cannabis is supposed to have this affect, not thc.
Re:The Adult Brain Does Grow New Neurons After All, Study Says by heavenlyblue on Tuesday March 26, 2019 @08:33AM (#19491139)
Why CBD specifically? Where do you get that data?
Re:The Adult Brain Does Grow New Neurons After All, Study Says by newnewpdro on Monday March 25, 2019 @06:04PM (#19487166)
Same here, and it always seemed obvious to me that the brain was regenerating considering the nearly constant barrage of destructive shit thrown at it in adulthood without becoming vegetative; alcohol.
Re:The Adult Brain Does Grow New Neurons After All, Study Says by m00x on Monday March 25, 2019 @11:31PM (#19489079)
We're built to just last long enough to procreate because that's been the optimal way to keep our species alive. Regenerating causes issues (cancer, malformations, takes energy), so if the body can build it only once and last 20-30 years, it's optimal.