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Re:ISPs in AU and NZ start censoring the internet without le... by erentz on Saturday March 23, 2019 @08:49PM (#19473306)
> the most disturbing Orwellian thing I’ve ever seen. The level of authoritarian curbing of freedoms that has seemingly happened overnight at the stroke of a pen should seriously concern anyone who values constitutionally limited government.

Woah hold the hyperbole. I want to give you the benefit of the doubt.

What actions specifically are you even referring to? The change in gun laws? Australia banned semi-automatics. It’s survived. Pretty sure New Zealand will be okay without them too.

This post is about the ISPs banning sites, not something that the government of either country directed. (As the post makes clear Australia’s largest telco is also banning these sites.)

> I’m all for the debate, but as an American it’s unimaginable to see such reactionary, arbitrary, far sweeping action taken by a supposed free country with almost no discussion or legal process.

What was far sweeping and done with no discussion or legal process? You pretend like there isn’t a parliament with elected members, a far more representative and democratic parliament that any US government due to the use of proportional representation. This parliament is the legislative branch and can, well enact legislation, which is doing to ban semi automatic weapons based on the results of previous government enquiries into the matter that weren’t acted on.

(Talk about throwing stones here, seemingly nobody remembers 9/11 and the Patriot Act, and mass spying on Americans, and trillions spent on false wars that followed.)

A civil debate about the actions of these ISPs and the ability of private companies operating as utilities to censor or throttle or otherwise mess with neutrality of the utility they provide is very much warranted, but you’re not doing that here.

Re:ISPs in AU and NZ start censoring the internet without le... by huntie on Saturday March 23, 2019 @09:00PM (#19473368)
The ISPs aren't banning sites for kicks. New Zealanders have been arrested for distributing the video.
Re:ISPs in AU and NZ start censoring the internet without le... by erentz on Saturday March 23, 2019 @09:10PM (#19473416)
Note the bans on some of those NZ ISPs started before the video was classified as objectionable. So they’re not banning them to prevent their customers from facing charges. They’re doing it for other poorly explained reasons that aren’t legally required.
Re:ISPs in AU and NZ start censoring the internet without le... by Taniwha on Sunday March 24, 2019 @01:32AM (#19474570)
Under NZ law the snuff film was 'objectionable' from the moment it was created, the censor's job is essentially to just confirm that - the ISPs are not only stopping the film from being passed around by snuff fetishists but also protecting their own arses from potential legal issues if any of their customers access the illegal content
Re:ISPs in AU and NZ start censoring the internet without le... by myrandomcomment on Saturday March 23, 2019 @11:44PM (#19474150)
Great, please show me the act of parliament done in the light of day that made this illegal? The video SHOULD NOT BE WATCHED. It stand for everything I as a human abhor. However it is slippy slope, that leads to no good end.
Re:ISPs in AU and NZ start censoring the internet without le... by NickNameNick on Sunday March 24, 2019 @12:27AM (#19474313)
Films, Videos, and Publications Classification Act 1993

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1993/0094/55.0/DLM...

Admittedly, the Chief Censor only published his decision on tuesday, so everything the ISPs were doing before then, they did on their own.

Re:ISPs in AU and NZ start censoring the internet without le... by huntie on Saturday March 23, 2019 @11:54PM (#19474184)
I don't know what you mean by "act of parliament". This video should most definitely be watched in order to understand this event in full. No description of what happened can impart upon you the brutality of watching him go back in to double tap the victims. There is a severe lack of understanding of the impact of our actions when we choose to censor events like this.
Re:ISPs in AU and NZ start censoring the internet without le... by KidComputer on Sunday March 24, 2019 @12:11AM (#19474255)
People lost their lives terribly, that much can be understood without watching it. What more do you really gain by watching the video? Do you have some morbid curiosity that you need to satisfy? Do you think we should disregard the feelings of the survivors or those who lost someone close? How do you think they feel about the video being shared? How would you? Do you think they deserve respect and solidarity? If so, how does sharing the video contribute to that?
Re:ISPs in AU and NZ start censoring the internet without le... by throwaway8879 on Sunday March 24, 2019 @12:20AM (#19474287)
If someone wants to watch it, regardless of the intent, they should be allowed to. Disrespect should not be illegal. That's silly.
Re:ISPs in AU and NZ start censoring the internet without le... by KidComputer on Sunday March 24, 2019 @12:44AM (#19474382)
That's not even an argument. So people should be allowed to watch child porn?

Plenty of parallels between the two. People are hurt in the filming of both. It's damaging to the survivors. It feeds into the fetishes of those who would watch such a thing (it's a snuff film). In the case of this film I could argue that potential perpetrators could study the film for their own plans.

Re:ISPs in AU and NZ start censoring the internet without le... by baud147258 on Monday March 25, 2019 @12:19PM (#19483873)
In a forum discussion on the shooting, I found a link. I clicked the link, realized it's the right video from descriptions and asked myself 'WTF am I doing? If I keep watching, that's going to have consequences for life and stopped.'.
Re:ISPs in AU and NZ start censoring the internet without le... by nat8265639392 on Sunday March 24, 2019 @04:36AM (#19475187)
Should I also watch rape videos? Videos of kids being molested? Animal abuse? Just so I understand those events ‘in full’? That’s absurd to me.

Should the events be discussed? Absolutely. But I don’t have to watch these things to understand how abhorrent they are.

Re:ISPs in AU and NZ start censoring the internet without le... by scruple on Sunday March 24, 2019 @12:34AM (#19474340)
I don't want people to see X doesn't constitute X SHOULD NOT BE WATCHED no matter how loud you scream.
Re:ISPs in AU and NZ start censoring the internet without le... by int_19h on Saturday March 23, 2019 @11:40PM (#19474123)
With respect to their semi-auto ban, I think the most questionable part of it was where the executive unilaterally banned them via Order in Council, so as to not wait for the legislative process (which is still ongoing). I'm frankly amazed that any modern democracy grants its executive an authority to outright promulgate binding legislation like that.
Re:ISPs in AU and NZ start censoring the internet without le... by Taniwha on Sunday March 24, 2019 @01:39AM (#19474608)
They didn't ban them they changed the license requirements to own them, something that they can do legally by regulation under the current law

The ban will be done in parliament over then next week or so, looks like 95%+ of the currently elected MPs will vote for the change, all major parties in parliament, left and right, have publicly said that they agree with the changes.

Remember that less than one person in 15 in NZ has a gun license, and even fewer own semi-automatics, it's a small minority affected by this change, it's not all that controversial (in NZ)

Re:ISPs in AU and NZ start censoring the internet without le... by hestefisk on Sunday March 24, 2019 @12:25AM (#19474306)
Free speech doesn’t mean the right to insult or spread unlawful things online. Whilst I do find it concerning that the ISPs are self-censoring, blocking access to a video of an act that contradicts all of our democratic rights (freedom of movement, freedom of religion, freedom of thought) can hardly offend anyone.

Free speech is the right to express an opinion without being penalised. Left wing and right wing lunatics are free to distribute their wicked thoughts online, just as the US gun lobby and alt-right fanatics are free to publish whatever they like on the fifth amendment. Fine with me. It doesn’t hurt or ‘harm’ anyone.

A video of a fascist wacko shooting 50 people down is not freedom of speech. It’s illegal and sick.

Don’t confuse the two.

Re:ISPs in AU and NZ start censoring the internet without le... by bufferoverflow on Sunday March 24, 2019 @12:45AM (#19474385)
> Free speech doesn’t mean the right to insult

Actually it does. Even hate speech is free speech in the US.

> or spread unlawful things online

That's not a free speech violation then. The video in question is not classified, doesn't break any laws, it just depicts a horrible act. Should we make all war documentaries illegal too?

> Free speech is the right to express an opinion without being penalised

So you just contradicted your first point. If I, for example, say "you're an idiot", it's an opinion, it's protected speech (in the US at least).

AU doesn't have free speech except political speech, and has been making some Orwellian moves.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech_by_country#A...

NZ has the Bill of Rights of 1990 that states:

"Everyone has the right to freedom of expression, including the freedom to seek, receive, and impart information and opinions of any kind in any form."

So it seems that any censorship would directly contradict that.

Re:ISPs in AU and NZ start censoring the internet without le... by kdtsh on Sunday March 24, 2019 @07:49AM (#19475803)
You can have your views about what constitutes free speech, but the fact that US constitution is interpreted as considering hate speech to be free speech is irrelevant to your response to OP, as NZ is not under the jurisdiction of the US. The video does break NZ laws, and the steps that have been taken to prevent its dissemination follow from that. Also, war documentaries generally contain footage of conflicts which have a basis in law, while disseminating ISIS beheadings may be illegal (but IANAL).

As others have pointed out, most countries allow for exceptions to free speech in cases constituting hate speech - the fact that the US does not is a neutral fact, and an appeal to free speech absolutism doesn’t really constitute an argument for why other countries should uphold the same standards of free speech.

On Australia: we have a different political system here to the US, which is similar to NZ. While our governments are different to the UK in that parliament has enumerated powers, we don’t require fundamental rights to be explicitly defined in the constitution. The provision for freedom of political speech for instance was built up when it became apparent that the way in which we want our society to operate requires such an interpretation of our constitution. On the other hand, the US system requires a constitutional amendment for issues relating to constitutional law and fundamental rights outlined in the constitution. Both systems have their merits and demerits, but the fact that ours doesn’t work in the way that the US’s does isn’t an argument against it.

Re:ISPs in AU and NZ start censoring the internet without le... by bitwize on Sunday March 24, 2019 @06:23AM (#19475506)
Most countries with a bill of rights, including Canada and presumably NZ, have a "notwithstanding clause" that allows the government broad power to abrogate those rights if it feels it is in the public interest to do so.

The USA is the sole major exception.

Re:ISPs in AU and NZ start censoring the internet without le... by hestefisk on Sunday March 24, 2019 @04:16AM (#19475117)
Good point. I agree with you.
Re:ISPs in AU and NZ start censoring the internet without le... by crumpets on Saturday March 23, 2019 @10:02PM (#19473653)
>a far more representative and democratic parliament that any US government due to the use of proportional representation.

any US government? Do you understand that many state-level governments are proportionally representative?