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Re:5-MeO-DMT Associated with Improvements in Depression, Anx... by ericsoderstrom on Tuesday March 19, 2019 @12:22PM (#19432314)
Agreed. I think HN in general is too quick to dismiss the potential dangers of psychedelics. I know at least a couple people who have essentially lost their minds as a result of frequent psychedelic use. It's pretty terrifying to see someone slowly become more paranoid delusional and incoherent when they once were an intelligent and charismatic friend.
Re:5-MeO-DMT Associated with Improvements in Depression, Anx... by alexandercrohde on Tuesday March 19, 2019 @01:04PM (#19432826)
Agreed. I had a friend in high-school who was very smart, 2-years ahead in math, well-spoken and thoughtful.

After some amount of different hallucinogens he became lastingly weird. He would start saying things about "divine geometry" and "seeing yellow auras" when he closed his eyes and became a big believer in all sorts of supernatural (e.g. horoscopes)

He did come back to something not too far from normalcy maybe 8 years later, last time I heard from him.

Re:5-MeO-DMT Associated with Improvements in Depression, Anx... by aarpmcgee on Tuesday March 19, 2019 @01:41PM (#19433285)
It's true that these substances can change you. But then it is worth asking, who are you? And is that anything worth holding on to? And what is normalcy, and what exactly is that worth?
Re:5-MeO-DMT Associated with Improvements in Depression, Anx... by apk-d on Tuesday March 19, 2019 @02:26PM (#19433908)
I feel like you're trying to derail the discussion by asking random, seemingly unanswerable questions.

Normality is a broad but pretty well-researched subject and i think it's safe to say, belief in horoscopes and other unsubstantiated supernatural phenomena ain't it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normality_(behavior)

Re:5-MeO-DMT Associated with Improvements in Depression, Anx... by BeeOnRope on Tuesday March 19, 2019 @05:36PM (#19436220)
The first definition in the very first sentence of the article you linked contradicts you. It defines normal behavior as "consistent with the most common behaviour for that person" (emphasis mine). That is, the first definition definitely doesn't depend on other people, but simply what is common for the individual.

In that way, "normality" is flexible: if you change your behavior in a consistent way, your new behavior is normal by that definition. You didn't become "abnormal" you simply redefined your normal.

Now the article goes on to mention that you could also define this relative to a larger population, etc, which supports your point - but the very fact the headline definitely doesn't align with your claim shows that this is not as straightforward as you make it out to be.

Re:5-MeO-DMT Associated with Improvements in Depression, Anx... by apk-d on Tuesday March 19, 2019 @07:23PM (#19437221)
I don't think making this about definitions brings anything to the discussion. I meant to appeal to common sense. If your friend starts to see magic auras and find other patterns where there clearly aren't any, that's well past the point where you show concern instead of entertaining his worldview.
Re:5-MeO-DMT Associated with Improvements in Depression, Anx... by jonfw on Tuesday March 19, 2019 @04:09PM (#19435206)
To say that psychedellics cause a deviation from normalcy would be correct. But if you're making that out to be a problem, than you have to support why normalcy is good and deviation from that is bad.
Re:5-MeO-DMT Associated with Improvements in Depression, Anx... by alexandercrohde on Tuesday March 19, 2019 @05:45PM (#19436312)
Totally fair. We shouldn't just assume that "weirdness" is bad because there's a social norm against it.

But I for one feel everybody around me finds "weirdness" unbecoming. I find it to be an inescapable reality that people will care about you less and not want to get you for any manner of tiny deviation (e.g. as an extreme example, just if you said "beep" outloud every 10 minutes this would be reason enough for I think half of the population or more to not want to associate with you)

In my friends case though, I think what scared me the most was he became very unclear/metaphorical in speaking about even basic topics and didn't seem to realize how much trouble people had understanding him.

Re:5-MeO-DMT Associated with Improvements in Depression, Anx... by marssaxman on Tuesday March 19, 2019 @11:28PM (#19438654)
Sounds like a person in the grip of a big idea, wrapped up in their own thinking. That can be a pain to deal with but it tends to be self-correcting. If someone stops communicating with people effectively, others will withdraw, and that isolation eventually causes pain. Eventually the person who's off in their head will start to notice their needs are not being met, and as they search for a way to return to earth to get what they need, they'll have to do the work themselves to understand others and present their new ideas in a coherent and sensible way. Pulling away from a friend who's talking nonsense can sometimes be the most loving thing to do.
Re:5-MeO-DMT Associated with Improvements in Depression, Anx... by apk-d on Tuesday March 19, 2019 @07:32PM (#19437298)
I feel like some people are (unfortunately, expectedly) overinterpreting my statement as "normal > abnormal" instead of intended "extremely abnormal deserves extreme scepticism". Keep in mind that I'm an avid psychedelics supporter myself. Still, I see no excuse for superstition.
Re:5-MeO-DMT Associated with Improvements in Depression, Anx... by throwaway031919 on Tuesday March 19, 2019 @03:28PM (#19434705)
> "seeing yellow auras" when he closed his eyes

I want to demystify this a bit. I don't think it's as unusual as you suggest.

I assume you haven't had any substances lately. What do you see when you close your eyes? If you're like I've always been, you see floaters, a few spots of light here and there, maybe a faint "ghost" of the image your eye had seconds before, especially if it was bright. I first noticed that in childhood. In childhood I also noticed that in low light, like in my parents' car in the evening, I would see this light occasionally. I read in some places that this is a possible explanation for when kids complain about seeing monsters in the closet, or similar. As I got older I noticed this sort of thing less.

Later I started getting migraines, though, and when I get those symptoms I also see light that isn't there. Sometimes when I have a headache I can see it come in waves when I close my eyes.

Later still, I got a little into meditation, and I noticed I could make those perceptions come about by manipulating my breathing.

And finally, I did a low dose of psilocybin exactly one time in my life. I saw colors when closing my eyes. It was pretty much the same as all those experiences above, only a little more intense.

But you know, we also see faces in clouds. Sometimes we think we spot recognizable objects, then look closer and longer, and they're not there. Our brains are taking shortcuts based on limited data all the time, without drugs. What the drug does, in my layperson's understanding, is make your brain very eager to make these connections. Just as you might see a face in a random, noisy pattern when you're not looking closely, your brain is eager to interpret whatever visual data it gets and run with it. When your brain is deprived of sensory input, such as in darkness or with eyes closed, seemingly it can do this more.

I would say about your friend, don't rush to judge them for describing a particular wrinkle of how his brain works. Perhaps they got a little too into talking and thinking about it, or came to the wrong conclusion. But the experience itself is not that remarkable, and happens to sound-minded people all the time.

Re:5-MeO-DMT Associated with Improvements in Depression, Anx... by comboy on Tuesday March 19, 2019 @03:50PM (#19434968)
Re:5-MeO-DMT Associated with Improvements in Depression, Anx... by simonsaidit on Tuesday March 19, 2019 @01:04PM (#19432820)
You can abuse most things. Ive seen the same with people spending too much time online in strange communities without the drugs. But sure psykedelics breaks down ego and does other changes that from the outside might Seem a little wierd... but at the same time i see most people not being very charismatic and Im a firm believer the world would be a better place if everyone tried it atleast once. The entire world is somewhat delusional.
Re:5-MeO-DMT Associated with Improvements in Depression, Anx... by 0x8BADF00D on Tuesday March 19, 2019 @01:00PM (#19432781)
There is indeed a very thin line between psychosis and intense religious experiences. It is why in some religions, knowing God will literally burn the mind.

I would recommend psychedelics, but like anything, it depends on the person. There are dangers, but those dangers can be controlled quite well. At the population level, it is safer than coffee. At the individual level, it varies, just like anything else.

I will note that after taking ~110 μg of LSD-25 on several occasions, my overall cognition improved dramatically.

Re:5-MeO-DMT Associated with Improvements in Depression, Anx... by raducu on Tuesday March 19, 2019 @02:14PM (#19433737)
You cannot control HPPD.
Re:5-MeO-DMT Associated with Improvements in Depression, Anx... by perseusmandate on Tuesday March 19, 2019 @06:09PM (#19436575)
I have it and you 100% can. I've trained myself to not react to it and it has faded from my perception
Re:5-MeO-DMT Associated with Improvements in Depression, Anx... by raducu on Wednesday March 20, 2019 @03:51AM (#19439883)
I'm sure many people can live with many discomforts, but a lot of people HPPD cannot function as before they had it.

I have eye floaters and I can live just fine with them jumping around, still doesn't change the fact they are annoying and if I could get rid of them I would; if they were caused by something I did and I could change that, I would.

I'm sure most people with HPPD, if given the choice, would never have done psychedelics in the first place; HPPD is why I stayed away from psychedelics.

Re:5-MeO-DMT Associated with Improvements in Depression, Anx... by ericsoderstrom on Tuesday March 19, 2019 @01:42PM (#19433301)
In what sense did your cognition improve, and how do you know?
Re:5-MeO-DMT Associated with Improvements in Depression, Anx... by 0x8BADF00D on Tuesday March 19, 2019 @02:01PM (#19433554)
In terms of raw information processing. Focus, perhaps? Prior to taking psychedelics, I would struggle to process information, though I was an avid reader. Recall seems markedly improved too. Again, it is all anecdotal. It is a non-trivial problem to even begin to measure cognition, intelligence, consciousness, etc.
Re:5-MeO-DMT Associated with Improvements in Depression, Anx... by lpcrealmadrid on Tuesday March 19, 2019 @01:50PM (#19433405)
You can either demolish the brick wall or you can take it apart brick by brick. One of which is overwhelming and can cause collateral damage, the other of which takes longer but accomplishes the same with more safety.

My understanding is that many spiritual traditions have historically viewed psychedelics as ego’s way of “grasping” for enlightenment, for many before they are prepared for what they may experience.

A “bad trip” can leave someone in a state of confusion that they aren’t quite prepared to deal with.

Re:5-MeO-DMT Associated with Improvements in Depression, Anx... by HNLurker2 on Wednesday March 20, 2019 @01:36AM (#19439308)
Meditated for many years now and studied theravadin and others. And I still found Radiohead a great "drug": How to dissapear completely - Kid A(made me think of ego death more tangible)
Re:5-MeO-DMT Associated with Improvements in Depression, Anx... by valtism on Tuesday March 19, 2019 @07:44PM (#19437382)
I am sometimes sceptical of this because people experiment with these drugs usually around the same time that latent schizophrenia develops (early-mid 20s in males). I'm sure that they can do damage, and especially create a tipping point for people with a family history, but I'm still not sure how much is just because of the drug and not something that would have developed anyway.
Re:5-MeO-DMT Associated with Improvements in Depression, Anx... by cgag on Tuesday March 19, 2019 @12:54PM (#19432698)
Yeah, it's definitely a thing.

Here's an interesting post about it maybe being due to extremely high "openness" caused by psychs: https://slatestarcodex.com/2016/04/28/why-were-early-psyched...

I suspect this is much more common than anyone realizes: https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/06/06/hppd-and-the-specter-o...