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Re:The difference between ‘broke’ and ‘poor’ by johnminter on Saturday March 16, 2019 @02:12PM (#19409245)
This is an important distinction. CBS reports [1] that a $500 emergency expense would put most Americans in debt. Our consumer-focused economy with easy credit lures people into purchases that they cannot afford. Many spend without careful thought and purchase homes, electronic devices, automobiles, and college educations that they cannot afford to repay.

My wife and I had little savings when I got out of graduate school. Neither of our parents had taught us about budgeting. I found books that taught us how to make a monthly budget. The authors stressed the importance of working together to plan a budget and setting a goal of saving for an emergency fund that would eventually cover six months expenses. We drove our old car until it was too expensive to repair. Eating out was a rare treat. I carried a bag lunch to work. We bought a used tent and camping supplies for a vacation. We had a used B&W TV for years. We were able to purchase a modest house. We never upgraded to a bigger one. A careful lifestyle helped us get our kids though state universities with no debt.

In time we could add more "fun" items because we had a buffer. We were still careful. My employer had perennial layoffs. We knew I could be laid off at any time. Happily, I was ready to retire when my time came (My company went from 65,000 employees in our city to less than 1,700 when I was laid off).

I have a friend who ran his own computer business and counseled (free of charge)many families with money problems. His conclusion was that lack of money was not the biggest problem these families had. He concluded that poor management of what they had was a bigger problem.

[1] https://www.cbsnews.com/news/most-americans-cant-afford-a-50...

Re:The difference between ‘broke’ and ‘poor’ by thow16161 on Saturday March 16, 2019 @03:16PM (#19409598)
Any unexpected expense can knock you down when you're on the edge. Unexpected expenses are how people become homeless.

I am friends with a camgirl who is a prime example of this. In her case, she made a go of full-time camming, and thought she was doing well. What she didn't understand is that the site she worked for paid her as a contractor and withheld nothing. She never thought much about taxes, and all her previous jobs had withheld taxes, so she didn't pay quarterly estimated taxes. Last month, when she went to file her taxes, she realized she owed thousands. She has been struggling to pay this while other unexpected expenses mount (car repairs). She's struggling with the decision on whether to pay her taxes or her rent, and is about to become homeless.

The super irritating thing to me is that she had a gofundme setup for her friends and family to donate to help with her tax issue. The campaign was going well (close to 50% complete) but gofundme took it down and refunded all the donations. This was likely because they don't want to be associated with sex workers, and she apparently had a link to it from her cam-site page.

Re:The difference between ‘broke’ and ‘poor’ by thow16161 on Saturday March 16, 2019 @03:37PM (#19409741)
That reminds me: Does anybody know of any US crowdfunding sites that are not hostile to sex workers? That seems unlikely after FOSTA, but it does not hurt to ask, and I figure this would be the place to do it.
Re:The difference between ‘broke’ and ‘poor’ by siggen on Saturday March 16, 2019 @04:38PM (#19410123)
Probably best to talk to a tax advisor-- and I am not one. I think the first time you owe a lot in taxes you are not assessed a penalty (if you keep owing every year, you are). This filing season is also exceptional due to tax bracket changes last year.

She can pay in installments vs the entire sum at once: https://www.irs.gov/payments/payment-plans-installment-agree...

Re:The difference between ‘broke’ and ‘poor’ by thow16161 on Saturday March 16, 2019 @05:43PM (#19410478)
I've been trying to encourage her to do just this, but she does not always take my advice. She had her mind set on putting this behind her. She does not always make the best decisions.
Re:The difference between ‘broke’ and ‘poor’ by pkaye on Saturday March 16, 2019 @05:14PM (#19410329)
Why go through a third party which will take a cut of the donation. If it is primarily money donated by friends and family, can they not talk directly through phone or email?
Re:The difference between ‘broke’ and ‘poor’ by thow16161 on Saturday March 16, 2019 @05:40PM (#19410460)
I meant to say "friends of family". Think grandparents friends at church, aunt's co-workers, etc.
Re:The difference between ‘broke’ and ‘poor’ by a1369209993 on Saturday March 16, 2019 @04:33PM (#19410091)
Bitcoin? It doesn't really have a crowdfunding site per se, but "people who moral guardians hate" is basically the number two reason for its existence, right after "people who lawmakers/financial regulators hate".
Re:The difference between ‘broke’ and ‘poor’ by thow16161 on Saturday March 16, 2019 @04:36PM (#19410112)
Sure, but bitcoin may be hard for her grandparents friends at church to figure out, for example. Heck, I've worked for tech companies, and I can't figure it out. Gofundme is comparatively easy to explain.
Re:The difference between ‘broke’ and ‘poor’ by a1369209993 on Saturday March 16, 2019 @04:55PM (#19410243)
True. There's probably a business opprotunity in there somewhere for a payment processor with a policy of never disputing chargebacks, since that's the main excuse used to kill crowdfunding/patronage platforms that don't play along with moral guardians.
Re:The difference between ‘broke’ and ‘poor’ by opportune on Saturday March 16, 2019 @05:47PM (#19410500)
I feel like crowdfunding someone's taxes is pretty weird and doesn't sit right with me. Assuming her income is rather steady I think a loan is precisely what someone should get in this situation.
Re:The difference between ‘broke’ and ‘poor’ by jlokier on Saturday March 16, 2019 @08:19PM (#19411326)
I agree, if you can get it.

But credit rating counts for a lot.

Even if they can prove sufficient steady income, if they don't have a good credit rating, there's a good chance they are unable to get a bank loan, credit card (or additional credit if they have a card already), and perhaps not even a small overdraft.

I can't speak for the US, but in the UK, even "payday lenders" who charge >1000% APR rates will no longer lend to someone with a poor credit rating.

On top of that, for someone who isn't used to it, and who already lives on the edge of what they can afford, "thousands", probably at high interest, is a big loan they may reasonably worry would put them into an unrecoverable debt spiral.

Re:The difference between ‘broke’ and ‘poor’ by sangnoir on Saturday March 16, 2019 @04:49PM (#19410205)
> He concluded that poor management of what they had was a bigger problem.

Counseling works for broke families - not poor ones. 6-months of savings and all the financial discipline in the world won't do you any good when you get a medical emergency that costs 5-years worth of family-income and leaves one spouses unable to work (or both! Caretakers are expensive). You can't budget your way out of poverty.