News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Google’s Nest fiasco harms user trust and invades their p... by reaperducer on Saturday March 16, 2019 @10:51AM (#19408070)
little computers with microphones and an internet connection around all day for even longer

The difference is that we know our phones have microphones and cameras and internet.

The reason people are upset is because there was no way anyone would know they added an internet-connected microphone to their home with this device unless they opened it up and reverse engineered the firmware.

If anyone can prove that these microphones were turned on without the owner’s consent — even just for “telemetry” or “quality assurance” — then criminal charges will follow.

Re:Google’s Nest fiasco harms user trust and invades their p... by iforgotpassword on Saturday March 16, 2019 @12:08PM (#19408485)
> The difference is that we know our phones have microphones and cameras and internet.

The question is, does that really matter? Isn't that just something you tell yourself to feel like you're still in control, ahead of the game? I have two colleagues who in general are pretty concerned with privacy, data protection etc. but still bought an echo. Then countered my surprise with the same argument: at least I know it's listening and how it works! Like somehow, that knowledge makes you immune to the Problem. In reality, you don't suddenly behave differently at home. You won't think twice before saying something. You just managed to fool yourself enough to deal with that cognitive dissonance.

And I'm all for charges against google here, I mean I dislike them more every day because of something they did, including this story. It's just funny that some people still think you can trust them in any way.

Re:Google’s Nest fiasco harms user trust and invades their p... by ncallaway on Saturday March 16, 2019 @01:52PM (#19409132)
> The question is, does that really matter?

I absolutely think it does.

I have also bought an Amazon Echo, but I unplug it when it's out of use for extended periods of time.

I wouldn't purchase a similar product from Facebook, because I trust Amazon with my personal data more than Facebook.

I've never purchased a Smart TV that contains a microphone.

Just because I make some decisions you disagree with in balancing my privacy and convenience trade-offs doesn't mean I should be prevented from making those decisions at all.

Re:Google’s Nest fiasco harms user trust and invades their p... by reaperducer on Saturday March 16, 2019 @04:13PM (#19409974)
I have also bought an Amazon Echo, but I unplug it when it's out of use for extended periods of time.

I was given a Google Home for Christmas, and won't even take it out of the box. I'd give it away, but that not really solving the problem.

I've never purchased a Smart TV that contains a microphone.

My LG has one in the remote control. But I disallowed the TV from my home wifi about a year ago. I don't trust LG, and looking through the 53 screens of Terms of Service LG thinks need to agree to just to watch TV, I probably did the right thing.

Re:Google’s Nest fiasco harms user trust and invades their p... by glennpratt on Saturday March 16, 2019 @04:40PM (#19410145)
> I'd give it away, but that not really solving the problem.

This implies that your moral judgement must apply to whoever you gave it to. Why?

Re:Google’s Nest fiasco harms user trust and invades their p... by skookumchuck on Saturday March 16, 2019 @04:53PM (#19410228)
> I have also bought an Amazon Echo, but I unplug it when it's out of use for extended periods of time.

I'd buy an Echo if it had a physical switch to enable the microphone, along with a light that says its on. Software switches are worthless.

Re:Google’s Nest fiasco harms user trust and invades their p... by Baeocystin on Saturday March 16, 2019 @05:46PM (#19410499)
I power my echo through a smart plug. Works great... assuming there isn't a hidden mic in the plug. :D
Re:Google’s Nest fiasco harms user trust and invades their p... by wurst_case on Saturday March 16, 2019 @12:18PM (#19408551)
Yes it does matter. I have camera covers for my phone and laptop. In terms of microphones I keep the phone and laptop away from me when I have conversations about politics. Call me paranoid but we know that the potential for listening in is there and I just don't know who is recording what. Remember that only two generations ago my German jew grandparents were put in camps. I don't live in a constant state of fear or anything like that, these precautions have just become habit.
Re:Google’s Nest fiasco harms user trust and invades their p... by wgjordan on Saturday March 16, 2019 @01:02PM (#19408813)
> The question is, does that really matter?

Legally speaking, it really does matter (18 U.S.C. 2511(2)(d) [1]) [my emphasis]:

> It shall not be unlawful under this chapter for a person [...] to intercept a wire, oral, or electronic communication where such person is a party to the communication or where one of the parties to the communication has given prior consent to such interception [...].

[1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2511

Re:Google’s Nest fiasco harms user trust and invades their p... by Pocketknife on Saturday March 16, 2019 @08:04PM (#19411257)
You say that as if Silicon Valley is subject to the law in the same way as you or I.

They learned to pay off DC around when Microsoft was taken to the anti-trust woodshed.

Now they are beyond accountability. Especially once it's clear to everyone that they control election results to a wide degree.

Re:Google’s Nest fiasco harms user trust and invades their p... by MertsA on Saturday March 16, 2019 @10:35PM (#19411855)
That's not what he's saying. The section he is quoting is that if the user already consented to e.g. an Amazon Echo listening with a microphone then that's totally legal. Hence it does matter whether or not Google disclosed this to the end user although reading through the rest of that section there's nothing there that would implicate Google if they didn't actually use the microphone in some way. I'm not saying there isn't some law being broken here, but it isn't in 18 U.S. Code § 2511.
Re:Google’s Nest fiasco harms user trust and invades their p... by gregd on Saturday March 16, 2019 @02:19PM (#19409291)
Of course it matters. How many consumers honestly knew that Nest was bought by Google?

I mean laughing and experiencing schadenfreude over someone planting a hidden and previously unknown microphone in ones home, is just weird man.

Re:Google’s Nest fiasco harms user trust and invades their p... by skookumchuck on Saturday March 16, 2019 @04:52PM (#19410221)
The camera and microphone on a phone is severely limited by battery life (and your data plan). But one connected to the electric grid and LAN can run 24/7 without being noticed.