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Re:How Inuit parents teach kids to control their anger by barry-cotter on Friday March 15, 2019 @02:00AM (#19396958)
https://www.reddit.com/r/slatestarcodex/comments/b0so4h/comm...

The article praises the Inuit for a "no scolding, no timeouts" form of child-rearing, talks about how "the culture views scolding — or even speaking to children in an angry voice — as inappropriate...even if the child hits you or bites you, there's no raising your voice" and quotes Inuit elders as saying that "they're upset about something, and you have to figure out what it is". It says that this is why adult Inuit have "an extraordinary ability to control their anger".

I Googled some studies about Inuit to see if I could find anything that didn't fit with this narrative, and came across this article on how Inuit leaders are protesting Canada's anti-child-abuse policy, because they say it is too harsh on traditional Inuit child-rearing practices like spanking. They complain that child protective services are unfairly removing children from Inuit homes, because they don't understand that Inuit tradition permits forms of physical discipline that might not be acceptable in broader Canadian society.

I also found this collection of interviews with Inuit elders where they describe how things were in the traditional old days. When asked about discipline, Elder Tipuula:

"If it was a boy, it was his father’s responsibility to discipline him. If he only wanted to spank him once, then he would only spank him once. He would behave for a while, and if he started to misbehave again, the father could spank him a second time.We women took care of our daughters. Some children reached adulthood without ever needing a spanking. Some of them needed to be spanked, and would thank us when they were older for correcting them. Parents would spank children to make them aware of things they had not been paying attention to. Some children were spanked when they did not deserve it and this was bad for a child’s development. When they realized they did not deserve a spanking, they became angry. Children who deserved to be spanked grew up being thankful for the discipline they received. Children who did not deserve to be spanked grew up to become angry people."

Elder Ilisapi adds:

"Some of us tended to take out our frustration on our children when it was our husband who we were angry at. Even if the child had done nothing wrong, if he made one small mistake, we took out our frustration on him. If children were treated like that,they could be damaged. It was their spouse they were angry at in the first place but they took their frustration out on their child. That is not the way to treat a child. It is not good."

Modern-day studies are downright appalling. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3708004/ is studying Inuit suicides, but finds that 27.5% of the non-suicidal placebo group stated they were abused as children. goo.gl/gX4hFi says that 86% of Canadian Inuit women experience verbal abuse, and 48% experience physical abuse in the first postpartum year. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.3402/ijch.v61i2.17443 finds that 48% of Inuit in Greenland report having been abused, about three times the Western population they compare this with.

(some of these are adult abuse statistics rather than child abuse statistics, but if adult Inuit never get angry or act impulsively, why are they doing all this abusing?)

To be fair, the Inuit are a very diverse population, and maybe some bands are unusually lenient parents and others are unusually strict (but the anthropologist in the article studied in northern Canada, the same region as many of the studies I'm citing). Also, the Inuit have changed a lot recently as they get influenced by European culture (but NPR did their interview with Inuit this year, who talk as if they're describing the present).

I don't want to contradict an anthropologist, but I hope people keep their skepticism glasses on for articles like this one.

Re:How Inuit parents teach kids to control their anger by taneq on Friday March 15, 2019 @02:22AM (#19397037)
Sounds like there's a liberal sprinkling of 'noble savage' being applied in the article.

The "teaching through storytelling" thing rubs me up the wrong way, too. We yell at our kids if they deserve it, but we do our best never to lie to them.

And of course, any time someone expounds on "the" way to raise or discipline children, you know they're talking through their hat, because children vary wildly in terms of how they behave and what will work with them, even within the same family. There is no one-size-fits-all approach.

Re:How Inuit parents teach kids to control their anger by Brotkrumen on Friday March 15, 2019 @03:09AM (#19397301)
>we do our best never to lie to them.

"Santa sees all, so behave"

"If you misbehave you go to hell"

"Don't sit too close to the TV or you'll go cross-eyed"

"Masturbating makes you go blind"

"Respect your elders because they are more mature/knowledgeable"

Basically we constantly lie to our children.

Re:How Inuit parents teach kids to control their anger by taneq on Friday March 15, 2019 @04:28AM (#19397731)
"We" as a culture, sure, but we don't use any of those.
Re:How Inuit parents teach kids to control their anger by Brotkrumen on Friday March 15, 2019 @05:45AM (#19398103)
Interesting. I'm debating whether I'll tell my child that Santa doesn't exist from the beginning. Kind of because I don't want to lie for the sake of tradition.

How'd your child deal with their friends believing in Santa and them knowing it's a hoax at that early age?

Re:How Inuit parents teach kids to control their anger by conanite on Friday March 15, 2019 @06:03AM (#19398205)
- Daddy, is Santa real?

- What do you think, dear?

Followed by discussion of the evidence... if all goes well they learn to use their own judgement and cope with coming independently to their own conclusion in opposition to 99% of their peers...

Re:How Inuit parents teach kids to control their anger by deckiedan on Friday March 15, 2019 @02:03PM (#19402418)
"Santa Claus is a great game we (our culture) plays. Every year we pretend (x) (y) and (z) about someone called Santa Claus, and pretend he's real! Do you want to play this game too, or would you rather not?"

and

"A lot of other kids really enjoy the Santa game. So don't spoil it for them. Like when you're playing being a pirate captain you don't like it if another kid says you're too young to be captain or your cardboard pegleg is fake..."

Kids more easily accept games and makebelieve, and happily hop into different games.

(2 kids, 4 3/4 and 2)

Re:How Inuit parents teach kids to control their anger by fuzzbuzz on Friday March 15, 2019 @05:59AM (#19398182)
I told my kids that the santa is real, but I have never threaten them with how santa is spying on kids to see if they behave and not giving presents to bad children. The funny thing is, my oldest daughter, to old to believe in santa and know very well he isnt real, "wants" to belive in him. She is prefectly rasional about it. It is the stories and the good feelings of exitement, fairytails, mysteries that she cheriesh.
Re:How Inuit parents teach kids to control their anger by sea6ear on Friday March 15, 2019 @01:47PM (#19402195)
As far as how we handle Santa, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy, etc. - we decided to be up front that they aren't real, but treat it as a game that parents play with their children.

So we still do presents from Santa at Christmas, Easter Bunny baskets, and Tooth Fairy money, but they know it's us doing it. So far it still seems to have enough magic of anticipation that they enjoy it.

Re:How Inuit parents teach kids to control their anger by taneq on Friday March 15, 2019 @06:13AM (#19398250)
We kind of skirt the edges of that one with "some people say that..." We don't just flat-out tell them that Santa was made up to sell more toys at Christmas, but we also don't present him as an actual real entity.

And let's face it, Santa works pretty well as a cryptid alongside the tooth fairy and the Easter bunny... :)

Re:How Inuit parents teach kids to control their anger by JetSetWilly on Friday March 15, 2019 @10:06AM (#19399779)
The problem with Santa is other parents. If you have that one child that doesn't believe in santa, and they gleefully inform all the other children at the daycare/school that santa is a lie, then you can imagine the blowback from parents of other children.
Re:How Inuit parents teach kids to control their anger by emmanuel_1234 on Friday March 15, 2019 @02:57AM (#19397229)
Additionally, there is a long period of time when the kid has suicidal tendencies and doesn't comprehend any language, and telling stories won't do anything to save his life.

Fear, induced by having made that mistake and paying the price, or induced by elevating your voice, does seem to work, albeit imperfectly.

Re:How Inuit parents teach kids to control their anger by bryanrasmussen on Friday March 15, 2019 @04:28AM (#19397735)
I had a friend who was cohabiting with a single mom of a 4 year old. He was always quite harsh on the kid I thought, very strict, he didn't hurt him but the kid was sort of scared of him (Because my friend was like 6'6, and looked like a mountain wizard)

So one time I was at the house alone with the kid. I turned my back on him for a couple minutes, he came walking into the living room from the kitchen carrying a butcher knife almost as long as his leg. I yelled at him got that knife away from him. When the mom got home I told her the story and she laughed and said 'oh Damien!' (kid's name was Damien)

When I told my friend later he sort of buried his head in his hands and said something about how hard it was and he was always mean to the kid and having to yell at him because basically he was the only adult in his life that kept him in check. Probably my friend should have found a better way of handling Damien, but on the other hand some situations are more difficult than others.

Re:How Inuit parents teach kids to control their anger by watwut on Friday March 15, 2019 @05:08AM (#19397920)
So basically, boy acted like normal 4 years old and took an interesting thing into hand? And that is somehow proof that the kid is exceptionally difficult? Four years old holding knife right now is a reason to tell him to put it down or introduce consistent safety rules, but really really it is neither proof of unusual out of control behavior or something that requires instant yelling.

Four years old can be taught to cut soft vegetables under close supervision. However, if you constantly yell at four years old, four years old will learn to ignore everything except yelling.

Not that occasional yelling harms that kid or something. But, yelling often is more of adult emotional reaction, not a rational reaction to real acute danger.

Re:How Inuit parents teach kids to control their anger by taneq on Friday March 15, 2019 @09:28AM (#19399477)
> So basically, boy acted like normal 4 years old and took an interesting thing into hand?

A 4-year-old is old enough to know what they are and aren't allowed to grab, in terms of common household items.

> However, if you constantly yell at four years old, four years old will learn to ignore everything except yelling.

If you consistently show a four-year-old that only yelling will be followed by physical intervention, then they will learn to ignore everything except yelling. If you consistently show a four-year-old that a quiet "I'm going to count to three... one... TWO..." will be followed by physical intervention, then they will learn to pay attention to that.

The default attitude of most four-year-olds is "make me" and if you let them know what will result in you making them do the thing, they will pay attention.

Re:How Inuit parents teach kids to control their anger by bryanrasmussen on Friday March 15, 2019 @05:25AM (#19398002)
Did I say he was exceptionally difficult? I wouldn't know, since I didn't parent him.
Re:How Inuit parents teach kids to control their anger by watwut on Friday March 15, 2019 @05:30AM (#19398031)
That referred more to your friend. The "having to yell at him because basically he was the only adult in his life that kept him in check". It sounds honestly like an excuse making and rationalization.

Not that I never yelled at kids. I did. But this reaction on that situation sound like that.

Re:How Inuit parents teach kids to control their anger by bryanrasmussen on Friday March 15, 2019 @05:42AM (#19398093)
Probably, but I wasn't in his shoes. I mean the guy was not the father, came in after the kid had grown some, was with a mother who did not say Damien don't take knives out of the drawer without asking but just laughed about it, and I expect was also from a somewhat disciplinarian background himself.

So, he was probably wrong in how he handled it, but it was quite heartfelt what he said, he was handling it as well as he could, and perhaps that was badly. It was hard for me to second guess him under the circumstance.

Re:How Inuit parents teach kids to control their anger by watwut on Friday March 15, 2019 @07:04AM (#19398514)
The mom was not there at the moment?
Re:How Inuit parents teach kids to control their anger by bryanrasmussen on Friday March 15, 2019 @04:30PM (#19403993)
the mom was not there when the son came in with the knife. when told about it she laughed, that lovable little scamp. She was not there when my friend unburdened himself about what he considered his obligations to the kid, and what he thought was the difficulties. At any rate, it's a long time ago now. I was just sharing it in that people for various reasons may end up shouting while trying to do their best, then again people may also end up shouting because they are too stressed by situations which is also a problem, but they should be helped then.
Re:How Inuit parents teach kids to control their anger by n_t on Friday March 15, 2019 @02:47AM (#19397164)
Even if some Intuits do opposite of what the article says, how does that refute what article is trying to convey - good parenting, controlling anger, and importance of story telling? I think you are focusing on "Inuit" part of story while the article is focusing on "parenting".
Re:How Inuit parents teach kids to control their anger by taeric on Friday March 15, 2019 @08:23AM (#19399003)
I don't follow. If "Inuit" is not a key detail of the piece, than why is it in the title?

The implication is strongly that a group of people, identified by name, has what is generally regarded as a successful way of teaching kids to control their anger. Again, based on the title.

The narrative of the piece builds this up with pieces of evidence all cherry picked to support how successful they are. This post, on the other hand, asks about contradicting evidence.

So, agreed that you can't just assume this parenting style is bad from the contradicting evidence. I question if you can truly assume it is good from the positive evidence. Random walks and all.

Re:How Inuit parents teach kids to control their anger by myth_drannon on Friday March 15, 2019 @07:46AM (#19398744)
Canadian Inuit collectively suffer from PTSD inflicted upon them in the residential schools. They were abused as children so they abuse their children now. It's hard to see where is the aboriginal culture and where is the pain brought on them by white men.
Re:How Inuit parents teach kids to control their anger by pasabagi on Friday March 15, 2019 @05:13AM (#19397946)
I think you're right to be sceptical, but I also think that contemporary inuit society is probably a poor example of inuit childcare traditions - since it's basically a community in its third generation of societal collapse. Child abuse is unsurprising in that context.
Re:How Inuit parents teach kids to control their anger by TomMckenny on Friday March 15, 2019 @01:50PM (#19402256)
Every problem you cite is caused by forced westernization and urbanization.

Alcoholism is not an Inuit cultural problem because Inuit culture predates the introduction of alcohol by thousands of years.

Unemployment is not cultural because people living off the land are not unemployed.

And hitting kids is something picked up from forcible re-education in Indian Schools where every aspect of the original culture was forbidden by generous use of beatings.

There is a tendency to quickly believe anything that treats our culture as innocent by blaming the victim, to easily believe anything contrary to what "rubs us the wrong way". I believe this is a dangerous fallacy we should resist.

Re:How Inuit parents teach kids to control their anger by donquichotte on Friday March 15, 2019 @03:30AM (#19397418)
I thought the same thing, especially since alcoholism is a problem with many Inuit communities [1] and alcoholism and domestic violence often go hand in hand.

[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4696457/

Re:How Inuit parents teach kids to control their anger by gerbilly on Friday March 15, 2019 @11:41AM (#19400678)
And what you just cited should be taken in context, and that context is that native people in Canada have been subjected till very recently to a program of forced assimilation.[1]

Some people call it cultural genocide.

Basically we tried as hard as we could to "take the indian out of the indian."

They would come into villages, as late as the sixties and take all the children away from their parents and put them in "residential schools" where they were beaten for speaking their language.

Thousands died in these institutions.

So perhaps another way to read it, is from the positive side. That is to say that some native people of Canada can remember their traditions and are attempting to practise them despite a hundred and fifty years of persecution.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Indian_residential_sc...