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Re:US refuses to ground Boeing 737 Max by Animats on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @04:14AM (#19376707)
Nobody knows why this plane crashed. The flight recorders have just been recovered and so far there has been nothing in the news about what was on them.

Yes. And the recorders have angle of attack data. We'll know within days if it's another AOA sensor problem.

Southwest, the biggest US operator of 737 MAX aircraft, bought the "AOA Disagree" option on their aircraft, and recently added an AOA indicator. Many operators didn't get that option; Lion Air didn't have it. If you have that, you get a warning that the flight control system is seeing bogus AOA data. It is somewhat less of a safety issue if you have the backup systems.

Why this aircraft was ever offered without "AOA Disagree" sensing is unclear. The single active AOA sensor can force the nose down. The pilots can switch to the other flight control computer and use the other AOA sensor, but at that point they're losing control of the aircraft.

Re:US refuses to ground Boeing 737 Max by Kipters on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @06:03AM (#19377235)
> Southwest, the biggest US operator of 737 MAX aircraft, bought the "AOA Disagree" option on their aircraft...If you have that, you get a warning that the flight control system is seeing bogus AOA data

How can something that important be an option?

Re:US refuses to ground Boeing 737 Max by CydeWeys on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @10:36AM (#19379046)
It's starting to seem like the plane is not safe to fly without that option (and potentially some other changes that haven't been finalized yet). I'm surprised; I thought that the "nothing at the expense of safety" ethos was still followed in the airplane industry.
Re:US refuses to ground Boeing 737 Max by vonmoltke on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @11:38AM (#19379730)
> How can something that important be an option?

Based on other comments here and in other discussions, it seems like adding that feature would increase the training requirements for the pilots since it is an additional instrument in the cockpit. I don't know whether it was Boeing, Boeing's customers, or both who pushed for the instrument to be an option. Any combination is plausible, and I'm not going to rush to judgement like a couple of my sibling commenters just because it's the fun and popular thing to do.

Re:US refuses to ground Boeing 737 Max by Kipters on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @03:27PM (#19382623)
Makes sense, thanks for the explanation.

Basically everything about this plane boils down to "it should require more training but it didn't"

Re:US refuses to ground Boeing 737 Max by KallDrexx on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @08:34AM (#19377975)
> Southwest, the biggest US operator of 737 MAX aircraft, bought the "AOA Disagree" option on their aircraft, and recently added an AOA indicator. Many operators didn't get that option; Lion Air didn't have it. If you have that, you get a warning that the flight control system is seeing bogus AOA data. It is somewhat less of a safety issue if you have the backup systems.

This seems like an important factor. I wonder if that's the reasoning behind the FAA not grounding the planes and assuming most US airlines have this system in place.

Re:US refuses to ground Boeing 737 Max by kimbo996 on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @05:32PM (#19384075)
Presumably the trim wheel spins/clicks when the mcas is doing its thing? Occasional weird electric stab trim behaviour has been a thing since the classic. I heard that 737 pilots are generally aware the electric trim can be switched off, or the trim wheel manually held for a more visceral solution. These things are not airbuses, the yoke is still connected to the elevators right?