Well this shit doesn't sound any better:

1565207 At cruise flight, our Wi-Fi stopped working. I then saw that I was unable to access the Pilot Mobile app. Since I do not routinely copy the flight plan to iBook or acrobat (we are not required to do this), I was unable to access the flight plan. I've lost Wi-Fi before but not had this problem. Maybe it's a 737max thing. My First Officer had a copy on iBook and airdropped it to me. Later we were able to restore the Wi-Fi and I could login to pilot mobile but the [flight plan] was not there anymore.

It's time we make radio with the ATC VoIP. Just run an asterisk on the plane.

Boggles the mind on several levels: 1. That airlines would use consumer tablets without hard-copy backup as matter of procedure. I remember Air Canada announcing it and how it would save so much weight for both pilots and the airplane, and thinking... I print my Google Maps as a backup for roadtrips, I sure as heck would do it on a flight!

2. Perhaps I'm misjudging, but the tone and perspective of pilot makes me worry for their approach and technical skills. Does not routinely copy to local device before takeoff? "Maybe it's a 737max thing"? Airdropping as a solution?

This does not smell off setting up for success... :<

I'd be curious to know what "WiFi" means here exactly. If it means "my flight plan is stored on the internet and I didn't save a local copy" then yeah, I think that's insane. But if it's a local WiFi network it doesn't seem so weird to me. You should, in the course of day to day operation, be able to expect a WiFi router will work.

Of course, it'll fail at some point, but it's not like they were cut off from the world, they could have radioed for the information if the copilot didn't have it, or something.

> You should, in the course of day to day operation, be able to expect a WiFi router will work.

My experience with WiFi routers is the opposite. I will wire anything important.

I very much doubt they're using consumer grade Linksys boxes in there, though.

Enterprise WiFi networks work better but my experience has still been far from what I'd call reliable.

I'd like to say an airplane might work better as a controlled environment than an office building, but probably not if you have 300 passengers in the back, half of whom have forgotten their MiFi devices running in their carryon.

Yeah me too.

You know if WiFi was so awesome, wifi routers wouldn't have wires in them!

As a non technical person, who is about to fly an 80 ton vehicle for extended distances, local backups of WiFi dependent data is not likely to be a major concern.

Especially if (a) it’s not part of your extensive checklists, which would reasonably be expected to be included if it was important, and (b) you’ve lost WiFi in other planes before without losing your flight plan.

I’m a technical person and it is a major concern.

They were in cruise, which means the flight plan was already set and can be viewed on the MCDU. Sure they lost a fancy map on the ipad but that doesn't mean they suddenly don't know where to go.

There are a number of situations where the checklist calls for reinsertion of the flightplan during flight, they would be lost in those situations.

I know nothing about piloting, but I would have expected a flight plan to be stored on the plane itself. Accessible directly on some screen in the cockpit or something. Why rely on consumer devices that require wifi?

It is called "electronic flight bag" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_flight_bag . I see it as a technical loophole that allows to gives handy tools to pilots and airlines with reduced hassles of certification processes.

The appeal of the 737 MAX for airlines was that it was intentionally made so that you could take crews with a 737 qualification and put them in.

I.e the airlines could save money on training.

The main design constraint on that bird was that it should pass most of the old paperwork so that Boeing nor airlines would need to go through expensive training and quification.

Yet, they modified the plane quite a bit - but they could not modernize several systems since they would have to then go through rigorous and expensive testing. ..

Nobody seems to underline this fact.

I bet that's the actual reason they didn't put the automatic pitch modification system to any documentation - it would not fit on the description of "just old 737 nothing new here hop in".

> The appeal of the 737 MAX for airlines was that it was intentionally made so that you could take crews with a 737 qualification and put them in.

Really? Everything I heard so far sounds like the 737 MAX has a few new, unusual or counter intuitive features that require extra training, and that training material skimped on training for that.

> "just old 737 nothing new here hop in"

Am I correct in understanding that was a blatant lie?

Not an expert, I'm basing my comment on stuff I've learned from third party sources.

It does not sound to me like lying, more like a confusion of project constraints. I.e. "make the plane better but don't touch this and this and this arbitrary system".

In short: the safety requirements for doing it properly are so high that they were artfully avoided. The aeronautical analog to byzantine password requirements that only make people susceptible to post-it password management?