News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:GoFundMe CEO: ‘Gigantic Gaps’ in Health System Showing Up... by TaylorAlexander on Saturday March 09, 2019 @11:08PM (#19350157)
One thing I’ve been studying a lot on my free time is the deep history of the concept of socialism. Not a particular implementation but the idea that it would be a good idea for us to intentionally build a world where everyone has certain basic needs met by society at large. In particular there is a rich history of “libertarian socialism” which advocates for direct social support of one another without a state. Typically it is advocated that this be done via organizational structures that do not require any individual to reach in to their pocket when another is in need, but by arranging society such that things like medical care are simply abundant, and only ever putting effort in to unnecessary developments (luxuries) once the basic needs of all people have been met. Obviously doing this is nontrivial and could only be achieved through a long process of repeated democratic decision making.

The idea that we could care for one another without a state is both obvious and perplexing. People have always cared for themselves somewhere in the world even if some societies have been highly centralized.

All this said, I have been fostering a deep appreciation for socialism as a utopian ideal to be discussed rather than either a bogey man or as something that requires the expansion of state power to realize. Many well meaning leftists have empowered authoritarians in their effort to force their desired outcomes. At the same time, the state as it stands today could be used to materially improve the lives of many impoverished people.

I think the answer is to use the state as needed in the short term to help those in need, while recognizing the “technical debt” it creates by ultimately undermining freedom. Any work done with the state should be done cautiously and with the understanding that the state power will need in the long term to be eclipsed by power organized by the people. And we cannot simply advocate for state power - long term we must build these structures inside our society, not rely on state power to enforce our idea of a just society.

But we must fight for socialism. I’ve enjoyed these two videos by Murray Bookchin recently.

This critique of the left from 1986 is hugely applicable to today (he even mentions Bernie Sanders briefly): https://youtu.be/kBP_BMOblzc

This video gets at the way our fantasies about technology can ignore our own desires as human beings, and presents an interesting contrast between then notion of futurism and utopianism: https://youtu.be/wS3-PffLKqM

Re:GoFundMe CEO: ‘Gigantic Gaps’ in Health System Showing Up... by akvadrako on Sunday March 10, 2019 @05:34AM (#19351170)
Most people's gripes about socialism are about central control. That's a vital part of the policies proposed by the left in the USA, especially the Green New Deal. And the worst aspect of Venezuela.

"Libertarian socialism" is practically a form of anarchy and has nothing to do with the modern usage. If you want to make it acceptable and frictionless for people to voluntarily offer their services for free, I don't think you'll get much push back.

Basically trying to lump both unrelated ideas under the umbrella of "socialism" does nothing except confuse people.

Re:GoFundMe CEO: ‘Gigantic Gaps’ in Health System Showing Up... by blahblahthrow on Sunday March 10, 2019 @08:51AM (#19351731)
Most people's gripes about socialism are senseless whataboutism. "But Venezuela!"

Anarchism (or libertarian socialism if you prefer) isn't just about "offering services for free". It's about a lack of hierarchy. You don't have billionaires. Americans today are not ready to embrace anarchism.

If you want a good sci-fi novel that explores practically how anarchism could evolve from the current US state, The Dispossessed by Ursula K Le Guin is a classic.

Re:GoFundMe CEO: ‘Gigantic Gaps’ in Health System Showing Up... by TaylorAlexander on Sunday March 10, 2019 @02:34PM (#19353459)
I definitely want to read the Disposessed as it has come up a few times in discussions lately.

I will say that if you devise a system where no one can become a billionaire but you don’t expressly say that, I think a lot of people would in principle support it. If you say people will live and work in one location, they will own that land and the facilities, and they will cooperate to produce output and they have agreed to share the output as needed between their community members, most Americans I think would say they do not oppose you doing that, and many leftists I think would be interested in joining.

Re:GoFundMe CEO: ‘Gigantic Gaps’ in Health System Showing Up... by TaylorAlexander on Sunday March 10, 2019 @02:29PM (#19353430)
“Libertarian socialism” in the historical literature is synonymous with “anarchism”, and that is my intended usage. Contrary to popular belief, anarchism is a specific idea for the organization of society that typically advocates for worker control of the means of production, direct democratic control of society, mutual aid between people, care for those that need care (“to each according to their needs”), and disintegration of most of the hierarchies of our current world.

It is difficult to achieve from where we are but by no means impossible. It certainly seems fair and worthwhile, and it is my goal to realize this in the US.

And you’re right! Most people who oppose socialism actually just oppose centralized control, so we have many unknowing allies in the US and that makes it more realistically achievable here.

Re:GoFundMe CEO: ‘Gigantic Gaps’ in Health System Showing Up... by DFHippie on Sunday March 10, 2019 @09:17AM (#19351842)
If someone can figure out how to fix the free rider problem without central control I think everyone would be happy. The problem with the libertarian solution -- purely voluntary charity -- are that a) it is proportional to sympathy rather than need, as many are observing above and b) it amounts to a tax on the generous and a self-reinforcing transfer of economic power and opportunity to the least pro-social members of society. The latter is the free rider problem. When people look back on the golden age of the 19th century or whenever when charity was voluntary, they're remembering the comfort of the fortunate, not the success of this system at buffering the shocks of misfortune.
Re:GoFundMe CEO: ‘Gigantic Gaps’ in Health System Showing Up... by eru on Sunday March 10, 2019 @09:26AM (#19351885)
I don't see how using the state for welfare guarantees a better solution to (a)? It's just that in a democracy (a) goes by sympathy of the voters instead of sympathy of the rich.
Re:GoFundMe CEO: ‘Gigantic Gaps’ in Health System Showing Up... by TaylorAlexander on Sunday March 10, 2019 @02:31PM (#19353441)
Well, there’s libertarians and there’s libertarian socialists, and the latter focus hard on how to solve these problems. I’d say first of all that we haven’t solved these problems under capitalism so we only need to beat what we have, and also that I am a robotics engineer and I believe robotics can be used to provide a basic level of material well being to all members of society and free up people like doctors to see whoever needs care without charging them etc.
Re:GoFundMe CEO: ‘Gigantic Gaps’ in Health System Showing Up... by hippich on Sunday March 10, 2019 @12:00AM (#19350388)
My current world view is that socialism implemented via central authority ruling over a very large group (i.e. socialistic government of USSR) is not working, because personal relationships connections are broken when helping each other is outsourced to some abstract entity. It is that entity being praised and hated when someone gets help or someone doesn't. The fact that it is neighbors, other region people, etc actually are involved in that is lost. No longer you can shame your neighbor for not helping a neighbor, or when they help - they get no word of appreciation. It is all abstracted away behind "They" - "why They did not fix roads?", "They healed my child from cancer", "They produced enormous GDP". This is the opposite of "my neighbor took my wife to the hospital when her waters broke and my car broke too", "our neighborhood resurfaced our road".

In fact... The same thoughts probably apply to most modern and developed countries, as most of them has a significant amount of socialistic elements already...

Re:GoFundMe CEO: ‘Gigantic Gaps’ in Health System Showing Up... by jmcqk6 on Sunday March 10, 2019 @02:19PM (#19353340)
This is a very interesting idea. I've been thinking that one of the big problems with government today is that most people do think of it as a 'they' instead of an 'us', but I think the reason is more complex than personal relationships being broken.

At the core, whatever the reason for it, government is not, in fact, a 'they'; it is an 'us.' Many of us insist otherwise, and give many, many different reasons for it, but at it's core government is the mechanism we have for figuring out how to live together.

I don't have proof of this, but I suspect that any other mechanism we come up with is going to inevitably converge towards becoming a government.

Re:GoFundMe CEO: ‘Gigantic Gaps’ in Health System Showing Up... by hippich on Sunday March 10, 2019 @04:41PM (#19354324)
I totally agree and trying to point it out all the time when I hear "they". But the reality is - when some person sits looooong away in Washington and makes some rules - they are hardly connected to the people they represent. Smaller and more compact governing bodies I think would resolve the problem, where we would still get a benefit of a dedicated person working on organizing life in the region, and yet not too disconnected to be called "they".
Re:GoFundMe CEO: ‘Gigantic Gaps’ in Health System Showing Up... by jmcqk6 on Monday March 11, 2019 @01:04PM (#19360606)
> But the reality is - when some person sits looooong away in Washington and makes some rules - they are hardly connected to the people they represent.

I don't think that is the reality. I think that is the illusion that shelter in. It's easy to see them as completely disconnected, but they're not really. Many times, this is a result of having to deal with much greater complexity the larger the scale, and people not taking the time to understand or appreciate that complexity.

We live in a globally connected world. There is no way to get rid of that complexity. Smaller governing bodies might solve some problems, but they will also create problems when considered at a global scale.

Re:GoFundMe CEO: ‘Gigantic Gaps’ in Health System Showing Up... by hippich on Monday March 11, 2019 @04:07PM (#19362293)
In tech people embrace micro-services despite complexity trying to arrange things to work. We do it because this way we are forced to deal with it, to negotiate between teams and services. We embrace that complexity and uncover it.

In governing we are trying to cover up this complexity with moving decision making into higher levels. Such covering up does not solve complexity, it just makes it look like it is not happening, but it is still out there.

Re:GoFundMe CEO: ‘Gigantic Gaps’ in Health System Showing Up... by jmcqk6 on Monday March 11, 2019 @08:49PM (#19364391)
I don't think it makes it look like it's not happening, but it is easier to manage some things at higher levels than others. If you're a business, every single governmental entity you have to deal with adds complexity into the system. You need to keep track of various sales taxes, regulations, etc. Increasing the number of jurisdictions you have to deal with increases the complexity quite a bit.

To reduce that complexity, you might get a lot of jurisdictions to band together and decide 'hey, businesses must interact with us via this standard way we all agree on." Congratulations, they have just created a government.

I think managing this complexity is incredibly difficult, no matter which strategy is used, and I don't think there is any one strategy available that solves these problems.

In some cases, it makes sense to keep the jurisdictions as small as possible. In other cases, the opposite is true, especially when considering things related to the Problem of the Commons and the like.

Re:GoFundMe CEO: ‘Gigantic Gaps’ in Health System Showing Up... by eru on Sunday March 10, 2019 @09:25AM (#19351878)
What you are describing is mostly independent of socialisms in the sense of 'who owns the means of production'.

A welfare state in an otherwise mostly capitalist society, like Scandinavia or Germany, has worked better in practice for these aims. Mostly because the pie is bigger than in the socialisms tried so far.