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Re:US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in ... by erentz on Saturday March 09, 2019 @10:52AM (#19346692)
How would they do that given US states do not have citizens or passports?
Re:US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in ... by toast0 on Saturday March 09, 2019 @11:33AM (#19346883)
Use state of birth, if it's encoded on the passports, and if not, require a visa from everyone until state of birth is encoded on the passports.

As a point of order, US states do have citizens. As a US citizen, I'm also a citizen of the state in which I reside.

Re:US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in ... by virtualwhys on Saturday March 09, 2019 @11:49AM (#19346989)
You're a resident of the state in which you reside. I have never heard anyone say, for example, "I am a citizen of the state of Massachusetts".

That you can move to another state and claim residency there implies what residency is, transient, whereas citizenship is permanent.

Re:US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in ... by toast0 on Saturday March 09, 2019 @01:16PM (#19347531)
The fourteenth amendment states "All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."
Re:US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in ... by erentz on Saturday March 09, 2019 @11:55AM (#19347035)
So someone born in Morocco who moved to France and became a French citizen should be denied visa free entry to the US because their citizenship by your standard is actually Moroccan.
Re:US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in ... by sratner on Saturday March 09, 2019 @12:24PM (#19347224)
It's what US already does for immigrant visas (referred to as "country of chargeability"), so there is precedent.
Re:US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in ... by masonic on Sunday March 10, 2019 @04:44AM (#19351026)
If that birth was before 1994, that person has French citizenship anyway, if a parent was born before Moroccan Independence.
Re:US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in ... by sgc on Saturday March 09, 2019 @11:57AM (#19347045)
You are a resident, not citizen of your state. Citizenship as defined means being a member of a country. Passport and visa regimes are based on that.
Re:US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in ... by toast0 on Saturday March 09, 2019 @01:18PM (#19347548)
Passport and Visa regimes are often based on citizenship or place of birth in addition to passport origin.

Also, the fourteenth amendment says "All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

Re:US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in ... by sgc on Saturday March 09, 2019 @01:27PM (#19347604)
I stand corrected on the internal us terminology. But the dictionary definition of citizenship refers to country. Do you have one example of a visa regime which differentiates between different locations within a country?
Re:US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in ... by toast0 on Saturday March 09, 2019 @02:21PM (#19347915)
Here's are a couple articles about China's special visa practices for people from the Jammu and Kashmir region of India in 2009. [1] [2] I wasn't aware of this contemporaneously, so I don't know quite what it was about, but it sounds like if you were from Jammu and Kashmir, your visa would be issued as a paper visa, and if you were from the rest of India, it would be issued as a stamp. A quick look at sample US passports indicates place of birth including state, so it would be feasible to implement.

My dictionary [3] has many definitions for citizen, none of which are very specific about being ascribed to a country, although the example does use a country:

> 1 : an inhabitant of a city or town especially : one entitled to the rights and privileges of a freeman

> 2a : a member of a state

> b : a native or naturalized person who owes allegiance to a government and is entitled to protection from it

> // She was an American citizen but lived most of her life abroad.

> 3 : a civilian as distinguished from a specialized servant of the state

> // Soldiers were sent to protect the citizens.

[1] https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/nri/visa-and-immigratio...

[2] http://blogs.reuters.com/india/2009/10/02/why-is-china-issui...

[3] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/citizen

Re:US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in ... by sgc on Saturday March 09, 2019 @02:54PM (#19348106)
I was pretty sure China would be the example that would show up. Not a great example to emulate.

The term state in that context means country, which is why citizen is a synonym for national. in the Oxford English Dictionary, that is the first definition, and secondarily (and more historically than anything) it refers to citizens of a town. It might be in use locally, but I have never heard anyone use the term citizen in that way other than poetically, and I have spent time in a number of English speaking regions.