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Re:An update about Redis developments in 2019 by munificent on Friday February 22, 2019 @01:25PM (#19227714)
This is completely tangential but it might help some people, especially those where English isn't their first language:

> she/he (not sure)

English is really strange around gender, and idiomatic styles have changed over time. It has always been a valid style in English to use "they" to refer to a single person of unknown gender [1]. This feels natural to English speakers when the subject is unknown and could be one of many potential people, as in:

When the first guest arrives at the party, give them a balloon.

Here, "them" only refers to a single person, but it's correct.

For the past hundred years or so, it was also common to use "he" to refer to an unknown hypothetical person. You see a lot of textbooks that do this. In theory, this wasn't supposed to come across as being exclusionary, but obviously it is. It's an explicitly gendered pronoun.

The feminist movement rightly drew attention to this problem, and writers experimented with a variety of approaches. Sometimes, at the beginning of a book you'll see an explicit "apology" saying something like "we use 'he' but don't mean it to only apply to males". Some simply switched to using "she" for everything. Others switch between "he" and "she" throughout, randomly or use the longer "he or she".

But, lately, it seems like the style is settling down towards simply using the already established singular they for all of these cases. To a native speaker, it feels a little weird at first, but you quickly get used to it. It's less jarring than "he" or "she" for most readers now.

It has a lot going for it:

* It has more established history than any other form.

* It doesn't force the author to pick an arbitrary meaningless gender.

* It's shorter than the awkward "he or she" (which also still forces you to decide which gender to put first).

* It doesn't exclude people who prefer neither "he" nor "she" as their pronoun.

So, if you're trying to figure out what pronoun to use when you don't know a specific one that is correct, default to "they".

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they

Re:An update about Redis developments in 2019 by antirez on Friday February 22, 2019 @01:29PM (#19227749)
Thanks, I'll use they the next time.
Re:An update about Redis developments in 2019 by bch on Friday February 22, 2019 @01:46PM (#19227910)
Or just use their name (“coleifer”), since the HN comment in question was already linked. Knowing gender is unnecessary in _this_ case.
Re:An update about Redis developments in 2019 by aeorgnoieang on Friday February 22, 2019 @04:18PM (#19229211)
I find that pretty obnoxious to read (or listen to). It's much more natural, in my experience, for text (or speech) to use pronouns generally and explicit names sparingly.
Re:An update about Redis developments in 2019 by clairity on Friday February 22, 2019 @02:15PM (#19228184)
the singular they as a compromise works ok but it leads to a larger question about whether there should be separate pronouns for a single person vs. multiple people.

while gender/sex is often beside the point, number often matters. we can keep the gendered pronouns for the few cases where it's needed, and use ungendered pronouns in the general case, but that requires an unambiguous singular ungendered pronoun.

Re:An update about Redis developments in 2019 by dragonwriter on Friday February 22, 2019 @06:03PM (#19229983)
> the singular they as a compromise works ok but it leads to a larger question about whether there should be separate pronouns for a single person vs. multiple people.

English already dropped it with 2nd person, settling on the plural (and formal) “you” as the sole pronoun and dropping the informal singular “thee”; and for 2nd person distinguishing number in the pronoun is probably more often an impediment to discussion than 3rd person (a 3rd person pronoun needs an explicit referent in the framing context anyway, so you don't lose much by not adding a reminder of number into the pronoun itself.)

Re:An update about Redis developments in 2019 by munificent on Friday February 22, 2019 @03:12PM (#19228694)
Yes, in an ideal case, it would be nice if there were separate pronouns for "single unspecified gender" and "multiple". Unfortunately, we don't get to reboot spoken languages.

Even if we could, it's still not clear what the ideal solution would be. There are cases where you need to communicate ambiguous number too. It might be nice to have pronouns that distinguish "definitely more than one" from "potentially more than one".

Re:An update about Redis developments in 2019 by clairity on Friday February 22, 2019 @07:24PM (#19230538)
the peculiar bit is how permeated language (e.g., english and other western languages) is with (women's) sexual availability--not just with gendered pronouns, but whole words, endings, titles (miss vs mrs. vs ms.), etc. i'm sure there are theories for why, but that emphasis is so heavy. many eastern languages, for example, emphasize seniority/hierarchy more.
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Re:An update about Redis developments in 2019 by chrisoverzero on Friday February 22, 2019 @02:19PM (#19228225)
>No, no it is not. I assure you, it is not correct.

Your assurances don't mean much compared to usage going back to at least 1382: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they

Re:An update about Redis developments in 2019 by supermatt on Friday February 22, 2019 @02:22PM (#19228248)
It is correct. Usage makes it correct, and it has been used this way for centuries. Its your incorrect labelling which results in the unnecessary spread of gendered pronouns.
Re:An update about Redis developments in 2019 by jmlsf on Friday February 22, 2019 @02:23PM (#19228261)
Despite your assurances, the writers at the OED and Fowler's seem to disagree.

https://public.oed.com/blog/a-brief-history-of-singular-they...

Re:An update about Redis developments in 2019 by cthalupa on Friday February 22, 2019 @02:26PM (#19228302)
>No, no it is not. I assure you, it is not correct.

Language evolves, and this means that the rules of grammar do too. The MLA already allows for pronoun usage to match that of the preferred pronoun of whomever you are writing about, and are considering allowing for the singular they in general. Some style guidelines already allow it. Others still proscribe it.

Plenty of news organizations, including the Washington Post, have set their style guidelines to use the singular they.

It's grammatically correct in plenty of places today, and the current trend is for that to increase, not decrease. You're fighting a losing battle here.

Re:An update about Redis developments in 2019 by geofft on Friday February 22, 2019 @07:50PM (#19230742)
Another example of language evolving: why isn't it "I assure thee, it is not correct" when addressing a single person?
Re:An update about Redis developments in 2019 by pravda on Friday February 22, 2019 @02:46PM (#19228483)
Well, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
Re:An update about Redis developments in 2019 by nathankunicki on Friday February 22, 2019 @04:16PM (#19229193)
Yes, and some opinions happen to be plain wrong, and others are similarly entitled to say so. The entitlement to state an opinion does not guarantee its correctness.
Re:An update about Redis developments in 2019 by pravda on Friday February 22, 2019 @04:56PM (#19229485)
Ok, I guess that joke was a little bit too subtle.

Let me rephrase that reply: Everyone is entitled to his own opinion.

Everyone takes the singular, but in that reply, I paired it with the plural their.

Re:An update about Redis developments in 2019 by geofft on Friday February 22, 2019 @07:47PM (#19230717)
Yes, and everyone missed the joke because that sentence reads naturally, thus proving that "their" is an appropriate pronoun to use.
Re:An update about Redis developments in 2019 by ummonk on Friday February 22, 2019 @01:33PM (#19227785)
Thought I just had: using just "he" is obviously exclusionary because it makes males the default. Likewise, people don't just use "she" either. But given that there are people whose preferred pronouns are "they/them", wouldn't that make "they" equally exclusionary?
Re:An update about Redis developments in 2019 by munificent on Friday February 22, 2019 @03:10PM (#19228685)
No, because singular they is a well-established idiom that conveys "unknown gender", it subsumes people who actually prefer "they" as well as people who prefer "he" and "she".
Re:An update about Redis developments in 2019 by ummonk on Saturday February 23, 2019 @01:35AM (#19232053)
"He" used to serve that purpose and subsumed people with all pronoun preferences.
Re:An update about Redis developments in 2019 by jerf on Friday February 22, 2019 @02:08PM (#19228132)
English needs a construction for referring to an individual that you don't know. They/them is fine. Someone somewhere is going to decide to get up in arms about that, and there's just nothing to be done about it since it will be a demand to know them before you know them (logically impossible), so don't worry about it.
Re:An update about Redis developments in 2019 by scott_s on Friday February 22, 2019 @01:45PM (#19227901)
No, because "they/them" is valid for everyone.
Re:An update about Redis developments in 2019 by mindondrugs on Friday February 22, 2019 @01:46PM (#19227905)
The they/them pronouns are used in place of he/him/she/her because they are ungendered. I fail to see how the use of ungendered pronouns are exclusionary.
Re:An update about Redis developments in 2019 by ummonk on Saturday February 23, 2019 @01:36AM (#19232059)
"They/them" are also preferred pronouns for some non-binary people, in which case they are being used as gendered pronouns.
Re:An update about Redis developments in 2019 by testplzignore on Friday February 22, 2019 @01:51PM (#19227968)
It certainly seems biased towards conjoined twins.