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Re:Google Ends Forced Arbitration for Employees by dekhn on Thursday February 21, 2019 @06:36PM (#19221694)
I agreed to that contract and open sourced many thousands of lines of code owned by Google, but still available to me and the rest of the world via github. I don't see the problem. If you could demonstrate your project didn't overlap google business then you could do your own project.
Re:Google Ends Forced Arbitration for Employees by mike_hearn on Friday February 22, 2019 @04:22AM (#19224071)
That's not really correct.

I wrote a project at Google that had nothing to do with Google's business, in fact, they explicitly had chosen to not get involved with that whole area at all (Bitcoin). I applied for ability to open source it under the Google name and was denied, I asked for a copyright release back to me and was also denied. The open source programmes office had decided they wanted my project dead and preventing me from doing anything with it was their tool.

Eventually I was able to get these decisions overridden by escalating up (way up) the management chain, but it was a huge pain and the OSPO decided that the exemption applied only to me, not other Googlers, so of course the moment the company hired someone else who happened to be involved with writing the "Bitcoin Core" software already, they tried to force him to exit the project and the same fight had to happen all over again (with more escalations to top management).

The whole nonsense with someone in middle management (who shall remain nameless) deciding to kill spare time projects because they personally didn't like the idea really turned me off to these clauses. Google doesn't need them, they aren't threatened by side projects of employees and the whole thing causes far, far more drama than it can possibly ever avoid.

Re:Google Ends Forced Arbitration for Employees by delroth on Friday February 22, 2019 @06:03AM (#19224441)
Note that the OSPO policies have largely changed since you've left Google. What you describe was definitely the situation as of 3-4 years ago, but don't describe how open sourcing code or contributing to FOSS projects works these days.
Re:Google Ends Forced Arbitration for Employees by m0zg on Thursday February 21, 2019 @06:45PM (#19221769)
People seem to not quite get this, so I'll try to be as clear as I can.

Google should not have the ability to claim ownership on unrelated work that does not use company time or resources unless _I_ _voluntarily_ relinquish such ownership. Google should have no business whatsoever interfering with what I do on my own personal time. Nor should I have to make anything open source. Nor should I need to ask anyone's _permission_ to utilize my own time as I see fit. You can get these terms with other companies, if you ask for them.

The only exception I think is reasonable is if my project discloses Google proprietary information in any way, or directly competes with Google, in which case Google should be able to terminate my employment.

This would be fair. What Google is doing now is slimy AF.

Re:Google Ends Forced Arbitration for Employees by joshuamorton on Thursday February 21, 2019 @08:29PM (#19222320)
The key point is "if you can demonstrate that your project doesn't compete with Google's business" IARC is really easy. I was approved for a couple projects, including one that absolutely could be considered to be competing with Google's business if they wanted, in like a week.

You aren't actually legally required to go through IARC. The contract isn't enforcible in CA if you really don't compete, but I have prewritten verification of that now, and it was painless.

IME, Google's earned the benefit of the doubt in this context.

Re:Google Ends Forced Arbitration for Employees by throwaway2048 on Thursday February 21, 2019 @11:01PM (#19223019)
If it's not enforceable, why is it in the contract? They obviously intend to try to enforce it in cases where they can, which makes claims about "don't worry about it, its not enforceable" even more shady.
Re:Google Ends Forced Arbitration for Employees by m0zg on Thursday February 21, 2019 @09:53PM (#19222730)
I take issue with the very idea that anything I do in my personal, uncompensated time is required to be vetted or approved by anybody. Google's "earned" a swift kick in the rear in this context.
Re:Google Ends Forced Arbitration for Employees by C1sc0cat on Friday February 22, 2019 @08:00AM (#19224900)
You might "think" but that's how Anglo Saxon employment law (UK USA Some Commonwealth countries) works.

There is literally hundreds of years of case law on this - you may not know that modern employment law descends from acts like the "masters and servants act" - guess which one we are.

Re:Google Ends Forced Arbitration for Employees by m0zg on Friday February 22, 2019 @11:28AM (#19226606)
There were hundreds of years of "case law" on not letting black people drink from the same water fountains as white people. And yet, here we are.
Re:Google Ends Forced Arbitration for Employees by aiiane on Friday February 22, 2019 @12:36AM (#19223375)
What is "company time" for a salaried employee that doesn't have required working hours?
Re:Google Ends Forced Arbitration for Employees by ovi256 on Friday February 22, 2019 @04:04AM (#19224016)
Come on, then it's a straight down slope to the company owns all intelectual output. Write a sonnet for a lover ? Bam, it owns it.

If it wasn't planned through the usual company command-and-control chain of command, it obviously should be outside company time when you're at home.

Re:Google Ends Forced Arbitration for Employees by C1sc0cat on Friday February 22, 2019 @08:02AM (#19224915)
That would not be related :_) - though the court case would be awesome.
Re:Google Ends Forced Arbitration for Employees by icebraining on Friday February 22, 2019 @04:03AM (#19224012)
It's the time spent working for the company.