Re:Indonesia reports reduced deforestation, triggering carbo...
by karambahh on Thursday February 21, 2019 @12:08PM
(#19218349)
CO2 fraud has been uncovered in the EU VAT zone[0]
1.6 billion euros skimmed by a dozen people in France. Up to 10 billion for the EU as a whole.
Unfortunately I could only find sources in french or hebrew but the amounts amassed by this operation is staggering.
[0]https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraude_%C3%A0_la_TVA_sur_les...
Re:Indonesia reports reduced deforestation, triggering carbo...
by JoshTko on Thursday February 21, 2019 @12:40PM
(#19218725)
Can't we make fines high and give anyone that reports fraud a cut of penalty?
Re:Indonesia reports reduced deforestation, triggering carbo...
by jaggederest on Thursday February 21, 2019 @01:28PM
(#19219204)
There's a similar concept to a Pigovian tax for fines, I think of it as a "Pigovian fine", which is the price at which the likelihood of getting caught times the fine exceeds the cost to pay the tax directly.
So if you have a 1% chance of getting caught, the fine needs to be 101x the tax.
This is why so many e.g. banking and consumer protection fines fail to achieve their goal - the cost of adhering is more than the probability of getting caught times the fine, so it's economically rational to not pay.
Re:Indonesia reports reduced deforestation, triggering carbo...
by sorryforthethro on Thursday February 21, 2019 @02:38PM
(#19219860)
Not just simple fraud, but a major hurdle is how to regulate CO2 necessary for producing consumer energy without creating a regressive tax structure. Once CO2 is converted to electricity on the grid, it's fungible and impossible to sort out luxury vs necessity.
Imho, government trying to sin-tax away CO2 is result of our failure to invest in technology solutions.
Re:Indonesia reports reduced deforestation, triggering carbo...
by gowld on Thursday February 21, 2019 @02:46PM
(#19219913)
Not so hard. It's fine if any individual tax is regressive, as long is counterbalanced by UBI or other forms of per-capita welfare support. You don't need to measure precisely, as long as you get rough estimates that people pay $Y in various sin-taxes but get $X>$Y in general welfare benefits.
Re:Indonesia reports reduced deforestation, triggering carbo...
by sorryforthethro on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @10:01PM
(#19268686)
I absolutely disagree. Inserting the government into the average citizen's balance sheet can and will be corrupted.
That's the problem already. We've had a CO2 price for a long time - but it's meaninglessly low. I can only presume because of lobbying from those with vested interests.