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Re:Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus by sammycdubs on Thursday February 14, 2019 @03:05PM (#19165465)
I live in LIC and I've not met anyone who supported it, especially the $3BN of incentives.

No wonder Gianaris, who represents our district in the NY Senate, was such a strong opponent.

Re:Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus by rhegart on Thursday February 14, 2019 @03:29PM (#19165674)
Majority of the incentives are from Amazon’s taxes. 27B in economic activity for 3B in tax breaks for just 10 years is wayyy better than almost every other corporate deal. Better than Tesla for sure. That 3B will no longer be generated. You want a net 24B or a net 0B? New Yorkers chose 0
Re:Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus by sammycdubs on Thursday February 14, 2019 @04:06PM (#19166019)
It's New York City, we don't need to give the largest company in the world a huge discount to do business here. It's not like the economic development of NYC is dependent on Amazon. It's a central hub to so many industries because of its infrastructure, talent, connection to capital markets etc, not because of handing out discounts.
Re:Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus by smsm42 on Thursday February 14, 2019 @04:50PM (#19166402)
> we don't need to give the largest company in the world a huge discount to do business here

Looks like you do, because now we have - no discount, no business.

> It's not like the economic development of NYC is dependent on Amazon

Of course, losing several billions of added value and 25K jobs won't kill the economy of the size of New York. Just as shooting oneself in the foot won't kill most healthy people. But keep at it, and sooner or later there would be a surprising development that the health is not what it once was...

Re:Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus by 1986 on Thursday February 14, 2019 @05:13PM (#19166581)
Amazon is already in New York and their own statement today says they will continue expanding those teams despite not moving forward with HQ2. No discount, still business. "There are currently over 5,000 Amazon employees in Brooklyn, Manhattan, and Staten Island, and we plan to continue growing these teams."
Re:Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus by smsm42 on Thursday February 14, 2019 @06:03PM (#19166930)
> No discount, still business

Not the business that was conditional on the discount.

Re:Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus by nihonde on Thursday February 14, 2019 @08:13PM (#19167704)
NYC generates about 10% of US GDP, already houses Amazon, Google, and every other global player. We have our fingers in everything already. We don’t need to play this kind of needy urban development three-card monty nonsense to continue kicking ass economically all day and night long.
Re:Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus by smsm42 on Saturday February 16, 2019 @02:16AM (#19177519)
Again, shooting oneself in the foot by losing 25K jobs won't kill New York. It just would make it a little poorer than it otherwise could be (some people a real lot poorer - talk to some RE developers that bought properly expecting Amazon to move in nearby...) New York doesn't need HQ2, it doesn't need any one particular development at all. But if it starts approaching all of them with this attitude, it gradually will start losing them, one by one, becoming poorer and poorer as they go. Would it kill it? Probably not, Detroit still exists. Is it a smart way to conduct affairs? I guess that's for New Yorkers to decide, if they think losing 25K jobs and billions in future tax income worth sticking it to Bezos - well, they can rejoice.
Re:Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus by Apocryphon on Saturday February 16, 2019 @12:11PM (#19179573)
Amazon’s loss is another company’s gain. There will be more deals and more jobs, you’re acting like this is a recoverable loss when this is not a loss at all but an opportunity for someone else to fill the void, without drastic tax breaks.
Re:Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus by Pyxl101 on Thursday February 14, 2019 @04:54PM (#19166441)
New York City wasn't going to give Amazon a special discount. The company qualified for existing incentive programs that are already available to everyone: the Relocation and Employment Assistance Program, and the Industrial & Commercial Abatement Program.

https://www.nycedc.com/program/relocation-and-employment-ass...

https://www.nycedc.com/program/industrial-commercial-abateme...

It doesn't make a lot of sense for a city to offer incentive programs and then complain when companies attempt to use them. The city should make up its political mind about what incentive programs are available, and who qualifies for them, as part of the decision about whether to offer such programs. Programs should then be implemented neutrally, in a way that does not play favorites or pick winners and losers. Many other companies have benefited from these programs - the entire point of these programs is to achieve some kind of policy objective by being used.

The uproar in this case seems more like political brinkmanship, not any kind of sound economic policy designed to benefit the constituents of the city. These incentive programs were presumably passed in the first place to benefit constituents - that's why they're there, to attract additional investment to areas of the city that otherwise would not receive it. ("The Relocation and Employment Assistance Program (REAP) provides a refundable business tax credit for commercial and industrial businesses relocating to designated areas of New York City and making capital improvements to their space")

If people in NYC think that these incentive programs are a bad idea, harmful, inappropriate, or whatever else, then they should direct their anger at their political representatives, and cancel those incentive programs - not direct anger at the companies who take up the offer that the city put forward.

Re:Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus by wolco on Thursday February 14, 2019 @03:42PM (#19165789)
Other businesses can move into those spaces and will end up paying more in taxes. Property values will go up slower. Having one company move in sounds great but diversity might be a better longterm strategy.
Re:Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus by smsm42 on Thursday February 14, 2019 @05:07PM (#19166538)
> Other businesses can move into those spaces and will end up paying more in taxes

The first is likely, the second is very unlikely. For the simple reason that Amazon would not plan such project in a market that is so hot that is able to generate tax income at the same rate as concentrated investment project of the Amazon HQ size. Surely, it won't turn into a barren wasteland, but I would not expect it to produce more in tax revenue than big development like Amazon HQ would.

Re:Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus by Apocryphon on Saturday February 16, 2019 @12:11PM (#19179581)
Time will tell.
Re:Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus by Q6T46nT668w6i3m on Thursday February 14, 2019 @03:47PM (#19165845)
Except it isn’t 0. It’s far from 0! LIC’s growth is really impressive without Amazon.
Re:Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus by Androider on Thursday February 14, 2019 @06:02PM (#19166919)
The waterfront is slowly getting nicer, but as soon as you go even a few blocks inwards it's still sketchy and/or industrial. An anchor like Amazon HQ would have had a ripple effect of improving the whole area (like maybe we could finally get a decent grocery store? It's cheaper to take the train into Manhattan and go to Whole Foods than visiting the local LIC Food Cellar and Key Food markets!), especially the more eastern neighborhoods within walking distance, which really aren't seeing much of any development today.
Re:Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus by betterunix2 on Thursday February 14, 2019 @10:25PM (#19168229)
I guess the huge Citigroup office does not count? Also when last I looked a bunch of high rises were going up near Sunnyside Yard which is pretty far from the waterfront.

When I was 16 LIC was a pretty sketchy place, but as of a few years ago when I lived there it was completely different. There is still some light industry related to food trucks and taxi cabs, but you have to walk pretty far to get to anything more significant. The only sketchy area I can think of is the Queensbridge projects but that is north of the 59th st. bridge and pretty far from the rest of the neighborhood.

Re:Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus by jtms on Friday February 15, 2019 @07:46AM (#19170408)
I know the Key Foods you are talking about - I used to live nearby it roughly 10 years ago. I can’t believe that it’s still really the only choice. Something is holding back LIC’s development to where it doesn’t seem to be keeping pace with surrounding areas. I think amazon could have been a big boon to getting things like a Whole Foods or other, better grocery stores into the area.
Re:Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus by airza on Thursday February 14, 2019 @06:26PM (#19167073)
But that economic activity will go _somewhere_, and allowing businesses to pressure them into tax breaks is collectively gutting the ability of many city governments to function.
Re:Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus by ChrisLomont on Thursday February 14, 2019 @06:48PM (#19167205)
Those city govts can choose 0 in new business or new business with jobs and income taxes and property value increases.

A business choosing a location is a business transaction, as is city taxation choices. Both can freely choose how to woo the other.

NYC chose to lose possible decades of high paying jobs over their unwillingness to deal.

Re:Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus by betterunix2 on Thursday February 14, 2019 @10:18PM (#19168203)
NYC is not exactly desperate. NYC is the anchor of an enormous economy that houses dozens upon dozens of large corporate offices and a vast number of jobs at all pay levels. NYC can afford to not deal with a corporation that is known for its poor working conditions and that did not even conduct its search in good faith.

Other cities are not so fortunate, but Amazon has no interest in truly desperate cities (or even cities that are not so desperate but could use the boost, like Newark and Baltimore).

Re:Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus by ChrisLomont on Friday February 15, 2019 @10:55PM (#19176965)
NYC as a whole not being desperate still makes throwing billions in income for residents, not all of whom make as much as Amazon would bring, a dumb move.

Amazon’s role is not charity. It is to be as productive as possible. NYC does have the role in being a good steward of resources for its citizens. It threw out a lot of money and job for them due to a vocal minority.

Re:Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus by anth_anm on Thursday February 14, 2019 @04:07PM (#19166034)
I'll choose that 0 over giving away 3 billion every day. I don't care how you try to justify this sort of corruption.
Re:Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus by smsm42 on Thursday February 14, 2019 @04:54PM (#19166436)
There was no "giving away" anything. There was "not taxing Amazon as harshly as others". It's like I tell you "I want to rent space on your frontyard for my sign" and you say "ok, $100 per day would do nicely" and I say "I need it for the whole month and $3K it too much, maybe $1.5K would do it?" and you say "I am not giving you away fifteen hundred bucks!". Then I say "OK, was nice talking to you" and you got $0 now instead of $1.5K you could have. But you're somehow happy you didn't "give away $1.5K", which you never had.
Re:Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus by jtms on Friday February 15, 2019 @07:49AM (#19170426)
Perhaps consider having even a mild understanding of how tax incentives work before spouting nonsense righteous indignation?
Re:Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus by anth_anm on Friday February 15, 2019 @01:23PM (#19173340)
Perhaps consider that not everyone who disagrees with you is an ignorant fool.
Re:Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus by jtms on Friday February 15, 2019 @05:24PM (#19175285)
You can “disagree” all day long, but the fact remains your comment demonstrated a clear misunderstanding of how tax incentives work.