Librem 5 Hardware Update

Re:Librem 5 Hardware Update by ajennings on Tuesday January 29, 2019 @09:01AM (#19026293)

I'm considering preordering this, but I'd like some confirmation it will work with my Verizon account. The FAQ says:

  The Librem 5 is an open network phone, not locked to any particular network.
  We aim to support 3G and 4G for the most common international frequency bands and carriers, with an interchangeable module. Exact specifications will follow as we are evaluating the data+voice modems that will be used.
  We expect it to work on 3G and 4G networks, and hope for it to also work for GSM, UMTS, or LTE-based network services.

which is not quite convincing enough.

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Re:Librem 5 Hardware Update by samueloph on Tuesday January 29, 2019 @09:35AM (#19026573)

"The Librem 5 is an open network phone, not locked to any particular network.

We aim to support 3G and 4G for the most common international frequency bands and carriers, with an interchangeable module. Exact specifications will follow as we are evaluating the data+voice modems that will be used.

We expect it to work on 3G and 4G networks, and hope for it to also work for GSM, UMTS, or LTE-based network services."

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Re:Librem 5 Hardware Update by criddell on Tuesday January 29, 2019 @01:35PM (#19028740)

Just because it's technically compatible doesn't mean the network operator will allow the device, does it?

I remember hearing Jeff Jarvis' story about trying to get Verizon to let him use a Nexus 7 tablet. IIRC was compatible with the network but Verizon dragged their feet for a long time.

https://buzzmachine.com/2013/11/06/the-verizon-saga-continue...

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Re:Librem 5 Hardware Update by shmerl on Tuesday January 29, 2019 @01:45PM (#19028832)

T-Mobile usually have no problem with custom devices. Avoid Verizon if you can.

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Re:Librem 5 Hardware Update by RussianCow on Tuesday January 29, 2019 @02:12PM (#19029013)

Verizon still has by far the best coverage in many parts of the US, so it may be the only option if that's important to you.

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Re:Librem 5 Hardware Update by shmerl on Tuesday January 29, 2019 @02:19PM (#19029065)

That was the case in the past, but T-Mobile were actively building up their network in the recent times so it should be a lot better than before. I didn't compare it myself, so can't say how much it has improved in areas where it was bad before.

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Re:Librem 5 Hardware Update by RussianCow on Tuesday January 29, 2019 @02:32PM (#19029161)

I switched from Verizon to T-Mobile a couple years ago, and where I live (Oregon), T-Mobile's service is absolute garbage compared to Verizon's. It was fine in the dense parts of the city, but anything outside of that was a total gamble. Driving to the mountain, the beach, or really anywhere outside the metro area nearly guaranteed a lack of service all or most of the way. I even had poor reception in parts of my house, and would sometimes lose calls in my kitchen!

I recently switched to AT&T and am much happier, but there are still occasions where my wife (on Verizon) has service but I don't. I've also heard similar anecdotes from people I've met in other parts of the country, so I don't think Oregon is the only state for which this is true.

(Before you say that this was a problem with my phone, I changed phones once while I was still on T-Mobile, and the service did not improve.)

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Re:Librem 5 Hardware Update by reaperducer on Tuesday January 29, 2019 @03:33PM (#19029565)

I live (Oregon), T-Mobile's service is absolute garbage compared to Verizon's

It's all regional. There are places in America where T-Mobile is streets ahead of Verizon.

The upper Midwest, and the Gulf Coast, for example, because T-Mobile bought VoiceStream, and PrimeCo, which were dominant in those areas years ago.

Between personal and work devices, I carry AT&T, Verizon, and T-Mobile with me almost everywhere I go across America (usually two or three different states a month). Verizon is best in populated areas. T-Mobile is best in lower density places. AT&T is something of a crapshoot. Some places it's incredibly good, and some places it's like trying to make a phone call on an angry hedgehog.

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Re:Librem 5 Hardware Update by linuxftw on Tuesday January 29, 2019 @08:08PM (#19031630)

> There are places in America where T-Mobile is streets ahead of Verizon.

Nonsense, it's not even a comparison. Tmobile is complete garbage coverage compared to Verizon or AT&T. I don't believe there is any place in the US where Tmobile has better coverage than Verizon.

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Re:Librem 5 Hardware Update by reaperducer on Tuesday January 29, 2019 @09:12PM (#19031996)

I don't believe there is any place in the US where Tmobile has better coverage than Verizon.

All I can suggest is you get out more. And carry one of each device with you simultaneously, as I do.

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Re:Librem 5 Hardware Update by shmerl on Tuesday January 29, 2019 @08:32PM (#19031751)

How do you know?

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Re:Librem 5 Hardware Update by RussianCow on Tuesday January 29, 2019 @04:06PM (#19029772)

Yep, exactly. So if you happen to live somewhere that's only well covered by Verizon, and consistently good reception is important to you, you don't really have a lot of other options. It's similar to the situation with ISPs in the US.

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Re:Librem 5 Hardware Update by ocdtrekkie on Tuesday January 29, 2019 @05:46PM (#19030609)

Most phones/tablets are a little different of a story, because the chip is integrated with the phone. The Librem 5, using a separate removable module for LTE, is going to be a bit more like a connected laptop. Verizon doesn't certify laptops for their network, they certify the cards/modules that you put in a laptop.

If you use an approved module, there should be no issue: https://opendevelopment.verizonwireless.com/design-and-build...

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Re:Librem 5 Hardware Update by LyndsySimon on Tuesday January 29, 2019 @03:49PM (#19029675)

I had a phablet on AT&T for years - a Samsung Galaxy Tab 2, which I ordered from Indonesia. I didn't have any issues with it at all. I didn't even contact them, I just swapped the SIM from my existing phone to my new tablet and that was that.

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Re:Librem 5 Hardware Update by ocdtrekkie on Tuesday January 29, 2019 @11:10AM (#19027454)

I'm in the same boat, waiting on Verizon support. But as a note, Verizon has a bunch of pre-approved modules (https://opendevelopment.verizonwireless.com/design-and-build...) and as long as you can pop one of those in the phone, it should be able to be activated on Verizon. One of the modules is very similar to the module Librem's code already supports too.

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Re:Librem 5 Hardware Update by seba_dos1 on Tuesday January 29, 2019 @09:26AM (#19026491)

The most likely (but not 100%, so it's not announced yet) module to be put there is Cinterion PLS8. You can easily look up which frequencies it supports.

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Re:Librem 5 Hardware Update by MrRadar on Tuesday January 29, 2019 @11:31AM (#19027621)

If they go with that module I will be very disappointed since it has basically 2015-era LTE support (in terms of both bands and speed). Here are the variants and the bands they support[1]:

> PLS8-E: LTE (20,8,3,7,1); 3G (8,3,1); 2G Dual Band

> PLS8-US: LTE (17,5,4,2); 3G (5,4,2); 2G Quad Band

> PLS8-J: LTE (1,3,19); 3G (1,19)

> PLS8-X: LTE (13,17,5,4,2); 3G (5,4,2); 2G Quad Band

> PLS8-V: LTE (13,4,2)

> LTE Cat. 3 (DL: max. 100 Mbps, UL: max. 50 Mbps, 2x2 DL MIMO)

I'm a T-Mobile US customer and while I could live with slower speeds the lack of band 12 support really has me questioning if I can justify spending $600 on this device. The lack of band 66 and 71 is forgivable since those are very new, but band 12 has been around since LTE was first deployed in the US (even if devices didn't start supporting it until late 2015).

Also note that the European variant of this module only supports dual-band GSM and no US UMTS or LTE bands so it will not work for roaming in the US. The US variants will at least support 2G roaming outside the US.

[1]: https://www.gemalto.com/brochures-site/download-site/Documen...

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Re:Librem 5 Hardware Update by xxpor on Tuesday January 29, 2019 @03:45PM (#19029647)

Lack of band 12 would make the device unusable in Seattle, for example.

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Re:Librem 5 Hardware Update by afturner on Tuesday January 29, 2019 @12:48PM (#19028284)

Why not this boi: https://www.gemalto.com/brochures-site/download-site/Documen...

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Re:Librem 5 Hardware Update by MrRadar on Tuesday January 29, 2019 @12:54PM (#19028343)

That one only supports LTE Cat. M1 which is only suitable for IoT devices. As the datasheet indicates max downlink speeds are 300 kbps and there is no 2G or 3G support.

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Re:Librem 5 Hardware Update by BuildTheRobots on Tuesday January 29, 2019 @10:30AM (#19027075)

I find the last quote extremely odd and contradictory; my understanding was that UMTS is 3G and LTE is 4G.

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Re:Librem 5 Hardware Update by ptx on Tuesday January 29, 2019 @03:50PM (#19029679)

I guess "3G" and "4G" here might be referring to some idiosyncratic American standards?

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Re:Librem 5 Hardware Update by aquaticsunset on Tuesday January 29, 2019 @09:59AM (#19026790)

Having at least some band support is looking promising, but whether Verizon will make it a hassle to BYOP or not... is TBD. They're getting better with that overall so I'm hopeful, but I'll believe it when I see it.

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Re:Librem 5 Hardware Update by neilsimp1 on Tuesday January 29, 2019 @09:22AM (#19026453)

The only carrier I see mentioned regularly that it should definitely support is AT&T. Other ones, I am not so sure about.

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