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Re:AMD Open Source Driver for Vulkan by mrweasel on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @02:56PM (#18971791)
Sadly I constantly hear people say that you should get an Nvidia card for both Linux and FreeBSD, because the drivers are better. While I'm sure that Nvidias driver a good, it's kinda sad that the attitude is that AMD is a better friend of the open source community, but yeah, we're going with Nvidia.

I get why, you have stuff to do and Nvidia performs better, but still it a little annoying.

OpenBSD seems to be the only open source operating system that suggests that you get an AMD card (or use Intel integrated graphics).

Re:AMD Open Source Driver for Vulkan by marcosdumay on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @03:38PM (#18972207)
If you are ok with a proprietary driver and all the headaches that come with it, NVidia drivers are better for some 3-4 years after you buy a high-end GPU or 1-2 years after you buy a low-end one. After this time, NVidia drops support and you are stuck with a free driver that is much worse than the AMD ones (not by fault of the free drivers developers, mind you, but because NVidia makes their life hard).

Personally, I do prefer to avoid the headaches from day 1, so it's AMD or Intel.

Re:AMD Open Source Driver for Vulkan by zepearl on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @04:01PM (#18972422)
I use an nVidia GeForce 8200 (published in ~2007) in my mediacenter and I don't have problems with drivers (v340.xxx legacy series: latest update is v340.107 https://www.nvidia.com/Download/driverResults.aspx/135161/en... ) on Arch Linux.

Same thing with a GTX 760 (currently using v390.42) on Gentoo: I kept that server running multiple times for many weeks at a time and never had crashes/weird things happening while doing GPU-mining, playing or just having the GPU idle while using the CPU.

As well with setting things up, I always just replaced the old card with the new one and that was it.

Re:AMD Open Source Driver for Vulkan by gcb0 on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @05:00PM (#18972994)
the post you reply to probably means support for gl regarding features and performance. a server and a media center will do fine even without proprietary drivers... well, until someone update the color stuff in v4l again.
Re:AMD Open Source Driver for Vulkan by zepearl on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @05:15PM (#18973148)
Maybe? But then probably even AMD/ATI does not keep on tweaking their drivers more than nVidia to improve performance & OpenGL-compliance for all their 12 years old HW... (but I might be wrong).

>>a server and a media center will do fine even without proprietary drivers...

Honestly: not sure (never tried). My big question mark involving the GPU frequency scaling (maybe now an issue only with "Nouveau"?) when using video filters (e.g. framerate sync and/or nice upscaling filters).

[dead]
Re:AMD Open Source Driver for Vulkan by simcop2387 on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @04:10PM (#18972500)
So I haven't looked at this in a while but the usual way it's happened on linux drivers for nvidia cards is that they stop updates for X11, the linux kernel, and other parts of the system, even if they maintain the driver itself keeping it otherwise up to date feature and bug wise. This means that you'll be stuck at older kernel versions and older linux distro versions without a way to move forward on the proprietary driver.
Re:AMD Open Source Driver for Vulkan by jpk on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @03:55PM (#18972368)
Leading with an accusation of substance abuse isn't civil or productive. Your comment may well be factually correct, but your tone here is inappropriate.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re:AMD Open Source Driver for Vulkan by gamblor956 on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @05:10PM (#18973097)
It's not an accusation of drug use.

"What are you smoking" is a US colloquialism that means that one's statement is so nonsensical that the most logical explanation is that the speaker was smoking marijuana at the time the statement was made (because the implied alternative is that the speaker is crazy or quite daft).

Re:AMD Open Source Driver for Vulkan by jpk on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @09:28PM (#18975138)
I am well aware of the colloquialism. My point is that it violates the site's comment guidelines.

'When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. "That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3."'

This comment can be shortened to eliminate the first sentence, which is needlessly rude.

Re:AMD Open Source Driver for Vulkan by majewsky on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @05:22PM (#18973202)
Please keep in mind though that this is not strictly a US site. To me (as an experienced, but non-native speaker) "what are you smoking" does not sound tongue-in-cheek at all.
Re:AMD Open Source Driver for Vulkan by gamblor956 on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @05:32PM (#18973287)
Please keep in mind that this site is operated by a US VC, on US hardware and software, for a US audience residing in a few tech-centric US cities.

US colloquialisms are perfectly appropriate on this site.

Re:AMD Open Source Driver for Vulkan by AsyncAwait on Wednesday January 23, 2019 @04:21AM (#18976875)
> Please keep in mind that this site is operated by a US VC, on US hardware and software, for a US audience residing in a few tech-centric US cities.

And funded by a Brit :-)

Honestly, that's not how today's world works. Sites like Reddit and HN obviously have an international audience. It is not meant for people from tech-centric U.S. cities, but rather to be a sort of sales channel for YC, which BTW has well-known companies founded by non-Americans on its list, such as Gitlab, Stripe etc.

> on US hardware and software

Really? Are you sure there's not a line of free/open-source in there that's written by a non American? It runs on Linux, I presume, who's creator is Finnish and there are many non-U.S. contributors. If there's NGINX somewhere in the pipeline, now you're got some Kazakhstani/Russian code in there. If any part was ever touched by a JetBrains IDE, more evil Russians were involved etc.

Please keep the nationalistic rhetoric down.

P.S. Did you know that paper is a Chinese technology? Yeah, the same Chinese who keep the U.S. down by hyping climate change! I hope you're not using it! \s

Re:AMD Open Source Driver for Vulkan by yellowapple on Wednesday January 23, 2019 @05:13PM (#18983665)
"It runs on Linux, I presume, who's creator is Finnish"

Who currently lives and works in the United States, last I checked.

Not to say I disagree with your point, of course; just pointing out the irony of condemning someone for putting undue emphasis on a particular nation's contributions to something while inadvertently doing the same in the process.

Re:AMD Open Source Driver for Vulkan by jqt on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @05:37PM (#18973342)
The translated version (of course) of "what are you smoking" is used and known in my own language too. Surprises me that it's not universal as I thought it would be.
Re:AMD Open Source Driver for Vulkan by dcosson on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @05:37PM (#18973337)
You don't think it's a little offensive and uncalled for to tell someone that it is inconceivable that anyone could be as stupid as they are?
Re:AMD Open Source Driver for Vulkan by yellowapple on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @06:43PM (#18974043)
You must be smoking some real good stuff if you think "What are you smoking?" is meant to be a literal accusation of substance abuse.
Re:AMD Open Source Driver for Vulkan by jpk on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @09:28PM (#18975135)
I am well aware of the colloquialism. My point is that it violates the site's comment guidelines.

'When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. "That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3."'

This comment can be shortened to eliminate the first sentence, which is needlessly rude.

Re:AMD Open Source Driver for Vulkan by yellowapple on Wednesday January 23, 2019 @05:19PM (#18983720)
I don't disagree. That's not the objection your original response presented, though; rather, your comment implied a literal interpretation of "What are you smoking?", at which my own comment poked fun with a variation on that colloquialism.
Re:AMD Open Source Driver for Vulkan by Athas on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @03:30PM (#18972123)
I strongly recommend AMD. After a long time of using NVIDIA due to their superior Linux drivers, I got myself a Vega 64 when I built a new desktop computer last year. After so many years of driver woes, it was almost unreal having accelerated 3D graphics work out-of-the-box after installing Fedora. For my personal machines, I don't see myself going back to NVIDIA anytime soon.
Re:AMD Open Source Driver for Vulkan by gcb0 on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @05:02PM (#18973018)
I am on the same boat. but instead of a vega you can get the last generation best of the best for under $170! 60+% of performance for under 1/3 of the price.
Re:AMD Open Source Driver for Vulkan by Athas on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @06:34PM (#18973950)
Yeah, the Vega 64 (like most high end gear) is probably not worth the expense. I had a surplus of money at the time and I do GPU programming research, so I could justify it. I also hear that while it has nice compute performance, it's not as impressive for games.
Re:AMD Open Source Driver for Vulkan by chme on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @03:41PM (#18972227)
You mean the proprietary Nvidia driver?

Because( no offense to the nouveau guys, you do great job, all things considered) but the open source one is in pretty bad shape and that is completely the fault of Nvidia.

Having to extra compile their driver (that does not conform to kernel standards) delivers a subpar experience for Linux users and taints the kernel. If they don't care about Linux users and help develop the open source driver, they I don't see any reason for buying their hardware. I rather spend it on hardware manufacturers that try to support me as a customer.

Re:AMD Open Source Driver for Vulkan by jjrh on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @04:00PM (#18972406)
I think guy above was talking about the proprietary driver. While I have tried to be a fan of AMD/ATI because of their stance on opensource, for a long time AMD proprietary drivers sucked and had all sorts of problems and the open ones were noticeably slower. For a lot of people there wasn't really much choice.

Sounds like things are much better these days.

Re:AMD Open Source Driver for Vulkan by nas on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @05:13PM (#18973135)
After years of having AMD video cards, I recently got a high end Nvidia card, GeForce GTX 1070 Ti. For 3-D gaming, Nvidia cards were clearly better performance vs price. However, dealing with the proprietary driver is just a pain in the ass. With an AMD card, the open source driver just worked. With Nvidia, I have to keep re-installing the proprietary driver. Sometimes it doesn't compile with the current kernel (e.g. Debian testing). Finding the correct driver to download and install is a pain (try using the 'links' on nvidia's site).

If I build another PC, I'm going to very strongly prefer an AMD card.

Re:AMD Open Source Driver for Vulkan by yellowapple on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @06:53PM (#18974130)
Yep. I was on Nvidia+Intel exclusively for a long time, but I bit the bullet and went with AMD graphics for my most recent laptop purchase, and was blown away by it being reasonably performant out-of-the-box. My most recent desktop build was consequently AMD-only (Threadripper+Radeon); worked like a charm. Can't say I'm all that tempted to go back.
Re:AMD Open Source Driver for Vulkan by floatboth on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @03:21PM (#18972042)
FreeBSD is definitely better with AMD. No one should be recommending nvidia in 2019.

There is unfortunately a little boot issue currently (amdgpu conflicts with the EFI framebuffer, so when booting with UEFI you have to turn efifb off, resulting in no display after the bootloader and until the GPU driver loads). But other than that, I'm very happy with amdgpu & Mesa.

Re:AMD Open Source Driver for Vulkan by kllrnohj on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @05:20PM (#18973180)
I've gone through 3 different desktops and 4 different Nvidia GPUs in my Linux workstation over the last ~8 years and Nvidia's proprietary driver has never once been what I'd describe as "good"

There's regular display corruption and flickering on the desktop, most significantly on the second display.

All I need/want is basic 2D composition of the desktop, so maybe their 3D acceleration works better. But there doesn't seem to be any reason to put up with the crappy re-compilation path just to get kinda OK desktop performance with a heap of bugs.

Re:AMD Open Source Driver for Vulkan by bjoli on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @03:31PM (#18972134)
I have other values. I dont need the absolute best performance and I'd rather spend money on a product from an OSS-friendly company. AMD is probably what will finally make me abandon intel integrated graphics for my Linux computers
Re:AMD Open Source Driver for Vulkan by pimeys on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @03:42PM (#18972239)
Just built my new work workstation with 2970WX and RX 590. This is my first AMD workstation since the Thunderbird and everything has worked just great with Arch Linux using the open source drivers.

And my god it is fast...

Re:AMD Open Source Driver for Vulkan by jqt on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @03:58PM (#18972392)
If you think that card is fast using the Linux drivers, wait until you try it with the Windows ones.
Re:AMD Open Source Driver for Vulkan by pimeys on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @04:21PM (#18972598)
The card is just to get two displayport outputs and open source drivers. The CPU is for work.
Re:AMD Open Source Driver for Vulkan by crazysim on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @03:03PM (#18971866)
What about Linus giving the finger to Nvidia? I'm pretty sure that's a suggestion of some sort.
Re:AMD Open Source Driver for Vulkan by dijit on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @03:14PM (#18971981)
they seem to be difficult to work with as a company, but their desktop GPUs seem to mostly "just work" on Linux/FreeBSD - so for the user they seem to be better.
Re:AMD Open Source Driver for Vulkan by shmerl on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @06:16PM (#18973745)
> Sadly I constantly hear people say that you should get an Nvidia card for both Linux and FreeBSD, because the drivers are better.

Not in the recent years. The trend has been positive for AMD and negative for Nvidia at least among Linux users for quite some time already.

See: https://www.gamingonlinux.com/index.php?module=statistics&vi...

Re:AMD Open Source Driver for Vulkan by blihp on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @08:29PM (#18974838)
Not in all use cases (yet)... they still don't have a very compelling GPU compute story on Linux. There are reasons they've only made a minor dent so far and compute is one of them. As soon as they do, I'll be happy to switch my systems as I do like the direction AMD has been going the last couple of years on the driver front but they still have more work to do before it's viable for me.
Re:AMD Open Source Driver for Vulkan by shmerl on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @08:31PM (#18974853)
> they still don't have a very compelling GPU compute story on Linux.

OpenCL AMD story has been rather flaky until recently, but supposedly ROCm is the most complete and open option there is now. You can also use Vulkan for compute purposes as far as I know. And Vulkan support isn't behind Nvidia in any way.

Some further Vulkan+OpenCL interop is still planned by Khronos.

See https://github.com/KhronosGroup/Vulkan-Ecosystem/issues/42#i...

Re:AMD Open Source Driver for Vulkan by zepearl on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @03:44PM (#18972255)
I did have an AMD card many (~10?) years ago, but I ended up replacing it with an nVidia because A) it was very noisy and B) Linux support was bad => I always used nVidia since then and never had problems with many types of setups and hardware, therefore I never switched back.

I will reevaluate both brands for the next switch. I would like to use AMD because of its friendliness/efforts towards open-source, but it has to perform (not "top" but at least "good") & be stable & be silent.

Re:AMD Open Source Driver for Vulkan by RussianCow on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @05:34PM (#18973310)
Loudness has more to do with each individual card and how the manufacturer built/designed it than it does with AMD/Nvidia. Read GPU reviews online and you will see that, even within the same model (e.g. RX 580), some cards are known for being unreasonably loud while others are near silent.
Re:AMD Open Source Driver for Vulkan by zepearl on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @08:16PM (#18974755)
You're fuzzy/vague and you assume that I did not perform a selection of what I decided to buy at that time and you state about huge differences of loudness between brands of the same chip without posting proof.
Re:AMD Open Source Driver for Vulkan by RussianCow on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @08:42PM (#18974915)
I didn't assume anything, I just wanted to point this out to clarify that fan noise isn't just about the card itself. As for proof, there are lots of sites (Tom's Hardware, Anandtech, etc) that compare different brands of cards by noise level—search for reviews of whatever card you're looking at and you're likely to find a chart comparing them. I've also personally experienced some rather large differences by switching brands of the same card, with both AMD and Nvidia.
Re:AMD Open Source Driver for Vulkan by zepearl on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @09:24PM (#18975118)
>>I just wanted to point this out...

"this" what?

>>As for proof, there are lots of sites..

Pls. post the direct links to the specific pages that allow us to see such a direct comparison or to at least see data which can be compared.

Re:AMD Open Source Driver for Vulkan by pjmlp on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @03:39PM (#18972218)
I bought a netbook with an AMD APU, exactly because I wanted to support AMD and their open source efforts.

The pay I got was the downgrade of the available GPGPU features, which now requires the Windows drivers for me to actually make use of the DirectX 11 capabilities and accelerated video decoding, as the radeon driver for the APU only covers a subset of what fxgl was capable of.

So yeah, what is the point of supporting AMD again?

Re:AMD Open Source Driver for Vulkan by BlackLotus89 on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @06:20PM (#18973785)
Nouveau developers actually suggested getting AMD cards multiple times (at least to me). I also went with AMD for my gaming rig. The only reason for me to choose nvidia is for computing (opencl/cuda)
Re:AMD Open Source Driver for Vulkan by BoysenberryPi on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @03:33PM (#18972150)
AMD has the worst open source drivers for Linux. Pretty sure Ryzen APUs still aren't even properly supported. I would love to use AMD on everything, truly would. They are the best for a tight budget but the support just isn't there.
Re:AMD Open Source Driver for Vulkan by green7ea on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @04:12PM (#18972529)
I'm using first gen ryzen with an RX560 with different Linux distros (Ubuntu, arch and void) and it works great. Especially for compiling and gaming.
Re:AMD Open Source Driver for Vulkan by BoysenberryPi on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @09:29PM (#18975144)
I'm talking about the APUs using integrated graphics. If you are using an APU with a discrete graphics card you defeat the purpose of buying an APU.
Re:AMD Open Source Driver for Vulkan by chme on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @03:55PM (#18972357)
You seem to life in an alternative universe than me.

Worst Open Source driver? In my universe that might be lima (no offense to the devs, I think freedreno, etnaviv and videocore drivers are a bit better and I don't think there is a PowerVR open source driver yet)