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Re:Companies Manipulate Glassdoor by Inflating Rankings and ... by cs702 on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @02:52PM (#18971763)
By and large, GlassDoor ratings are no longer a good measure of how well a company treats employees; they now measure, mainly, whether a company has the ability to engineer and maintain artificially good GlassDoor ratings.

GlassDoor, in short, has become a textbook example of Goodhart's Law:

  "When a measure becomes a target,
   it ceases to be a good measure."[a]
The same phenomenon is known in some contexts as Campbell's Law:

  "The more any quantitative social indicator is
   used for social decision-making, the more subject
   it will be to corruption pressures and the more
   apt it will be to distort and corrupt the social
   processes it is intended to monitor."[b]
[a] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law

[b] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campbell%27s_law

Re:Companies Manipulate Glassdoor by Inflating Rankings and ... by mushufasa on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @06:37PM (#18973977)
You are correct that companies' direct incentive is to optimize their ratings.

Don't you think that's correlated with improving actual employee experiences, though? I agree they're not the same thing. But if they spend HR effort to improve the ratings, that means they're looking at the feedback, and presumably they will try to address some or part of it where possible.

Essentially, the fact that people optimize metrics doesn't mean that the whole process is hopeless. Anyone who has built metrics systems will agree that you can rarely measure the exact thing you're looking for -- the ideal is to get as close as you can.

Re:Companies Manipulate Glassdoor by Inflating Rankings and ... by jacques_chester on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @08:18PM (#18974769)
> But if they spend HR effort to improve the ratings, that means they're looking at the feedback, and presumably they will try to address some or part of it where possible.

No. In any control loop you have two ways of reducing error.

One is the arduous business of actuation. Doing things. Soul-searching. Working hard. Investigating. Listening. Making it better.

The other is to lie to the sensor. This is always easier.

From the controller's POV, it's indistinguishable.

Re:Companies Manipulate Glassdoor by Inflating Rankings and ... by mushufasa on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @10:16PM (#18975348)
Don't both ways happen? Surely you don't see the world as completely black-and-white?
Re:Companies Manipulate Glassdoor by Inflating Rankings and ... by jacques_chester on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @10:50PM (#18975526)
I said it's easier to deceive the sensor.

The way you avoid this problem is to avoid creating the incentive to subvert the loop.

I am fairly confident that every metric, target, index, goal, KPI or score that has ever been connected to money, power or fame has been subverted. As far as that goes, yes, I see the world as black-and-white.

Glassdoor scores are tied to ability to hire. It's easier to game the scores than to not suck, especially since "horrible place to work" is going to correlate strongly with "dubious ethics".

Re:Companies Manipulate Glassdoor by Inflating Rankings and ... by DamnInteresting on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @04:15PM (#18972554)
> a textbook example of Goodhart's Law

I had never heard of Goodhart's Law by name until about 45 minutes ago, while listening to an episode of Planet Money that originally aired last November. And here it is again. This is one of the more striking examples of the Baader-Meinhof phenomenon I've experienced in recent years.

Re:Companies Manipulate Glassdoor by Inflating Rankings and ... by shlomok on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @10:11PM (#18975315)
Once I learned about the Baader-Meinhof phenomenon it seemed to pop up everywhere.
Re:Companies Manipulate Glassdoor by Inflating Rankings and ... by tatami on Wednesday January 23, 2019 @04:14AM (#18976848)
It's spreading on HN this past week, you could say it's viral.
Re:Companies Manipulate Glassdoor by Inflating Rankings and ... by d23 on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @04:48PM (#18972900)
I just saw it in another thread today and am seeing it again here. It's pretty apropos for what I'm dealing with at the company I'm at right now too.
Re:Companies Manipulate Glassdoor by Inflating Rankings and ... by DoctorOetker on Wednesday January 23, 2019 @04:01PM (#18982902)
sorry, this is off topic, but it's impossible to add a comment to the discussion in which you participated at

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18364148

where you discuss with one of the authors of the excellent paper "Towards Understanding Linear Analogies"

you are discussing ELMo and specifically word senses i.e. "leaves" which has multiple senses (departs, foliage, ...)

I recently stumbled on a paper from 2016 (modified 2018) which IMHO gives a lot of insight, but I had to read both the old and the new version (I recommend reading v1 first and then the newest)

They illustrate how for example the word "leave" in word embeddings, is in fact simply a linear combination (with coefficients on the order of 1) of the true positions of each individual sense i.e. "leave" = A"leave.1"+B"leave.2"+... with A,B, ... constants close to 1. Theres typically less than 10 for a single word.

These reside in the same vector space as the word embeddings, and they illustrate how these sense vectors can be retrieved from the shallow word embedding vectors by sparse coding!

The paper is at https://arxiv.org/abs/1601.03764

Again I recommend reading first v1 then v6

Re:Companies Manipulate Glassdoor by Inflating Rankings and ... by cs702 on Thursday January 24, 2019 @09:23AM (#18988871)
Interesting. Based on a quick glance, it seems this would answer the question I asked in that thread about whether it might be possible to get word-sense embeddings via two simpler transformations: first a transformation to the space of word-sense compositions (e.g., via GloVe/SGNS), and then a transformation to the space of word senses. I'll take a closer look. Thank you!
Re:Companies Manipulate Glassdoor by Inflating Rankings and ... by DoctorOetker on Thursday January 24, 2019 @01:06PM (#18991179)
correct, the flow of information is:

corpus -- word2vecOrGloVe--> word embeddings v_w in R^n

word embedding --sparsecoding--> sense embeddings v_s in same R^n

the sparse coding process gives the constants A_ws and senses where subscript w is a word index and s is a sense index, so that:

word vectors v_w = sum(A_ws v_s, s)

and for each word w most A_ws are zero except for a few s values

1) polysemy: a word w can have multiple senses, namely those sense vectors with index s where A_ws is nonzero

2) synonyms: a sense s can have multiple synonyms w, again those w where A_ws is nonzero

so the result of sparse coding gives for each word, a couple of indexes of the sense vectors, and for each sense the corresponding indexes of word vectors... and of course the sense vectors themselves.

so that to find say a synonym of "leaves", you just look at the sense indexes corresponding to that string, then you look at the different words indexes for that sense, and they will refer to the words "foliage" but also "leaves" of course and possibly others...

I also believe that once you have the sense vectors, in theory a second pass through the corpus should improve results if the context of each focus word is used to determine the closest sense vector compatible with the focus word... so that in effect word2vec or Glove extraction is run on the senses instead of the words

for the sparse coding they used SMALLbox, and I am still trying to better grasp how exactly the sparse coding works, and what prevents the A_ws and v_s to reduce to the trivial solution v_s = v_w and A_ww = 1 and A_wx = 0 for x differing from w...