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Re:Are We in the Middle of a Programming Bubble? by nouveaux on Monday January 21, 2019 @12:02PM (#18961663)
I'm all for programmers getting paid more. However, by your logic, if the company is losing money, should programmers contribute from their own pockets to keep the company afloat?

Starting your own company (not self employed contractor) gives a really good perspective on what it means to be owner and employee.

Re:Are We in the Middle of a Programming Bubble? by Jach on Monday January 21, 2019 @05:01PM (#18964014)
How is this his logic at all? The logic is more similar to a sales person. When a company starts losing money, it doesn't try to claw back commissions from its top sales agents to keep afloat. It might lower %s / do layoffs / something else, but money paid is money gone.

The logic is that programmers tend to produce far more value than they capture -- so that gets captured elsewhere, a lot of it typically by management. Except the value can be hard to quantify when the company is old and so is the software, how much of the value is employee #3701 making fixing a bug that's making the product not work for one customer in one instance vs employees #107, #85, and #150 who in their past team's life created the original version of that system to begin with to make the new customer even consider using it? There's no point to moaning about how much you "should" get paid. Just ask for more if you feel underpaid, but be aware that because of competition and because people usually want to hear what more you'll do to justify it, you're not going to always get it.

Re:Are We in the Middle of a Programming Bubble? by devoply on Monday January 21, 2019 @12:03PM (#18961675)
No they should quit and find another company.
Re:Are We in the Middle of a Programming Bubble? by seem_2211 on Monday January 21, 2019 @01:48PM (#18962487)
You can't keep a significant portion of the upside without taking on more risk.
Re:Are We in the Middle of a Programming Bubble? by devoply on Monday January 21, 2019 @03:02PM (#18963138)
> Privatizing profits and socializing losses refers to the practice of treating firms' earnings as the rightful property of their shareholders, while treating losses as a responsibility that society as a whole must shoulder, for example through taxpayer-funded subsidies or bailouts.
Re:Are We in the Middle of a Programming Bubble? by friedman23 on Monday January 21, 2019 @04:13PM (#18963675)
which software businesses have been bailed out by the government?
Re:Are We in the Middle of a Programming Bubble? by seem_2211 on Monday January 21, 2019 @04:43PM (#18963874)
Not really related to what we're talking about here though?