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Re:Son, as soon as someone puts their hands on you... by gaius on Thursday November 11, 2010 @05:35PM (#1895611)
I do not consider it a valid way to solve problems

Well, you're wrong. I don't want to get all Heinlein on you. But this is the way of the world. If you're cold, you put on a jumper or turn up the heating. If you're hot, you have cold drink or you sit in the shade. If you don't do one of these, the situation remains the same. And if you're threatened, you fight or you run. If you can't run, you fight. And if you have to fight - trust me on this - you have to go all in.

The smart solution to bullying is to make it socially unacceptable

If you have a way for an 8-year-old fat kid to do that, let's hear it. Hell if you have a way for "society" to do that, let's hear it.

Re:Son, as soon as someone puts their hands on you... by josh33 on Thursday November 11, 2010 @08:29PM (#1896156)
There are short-term solutions to problems and long-term solutions. The short-term solution may be to fight back in certain scenarios. But long-term, strengthening the family as a unit in society is the only cure for these type of societal problems. Good parents can raise good kids. I'm not saying that if a kid is bad or a bully, that means the parents are necessarily bad, but the correlation between good parents and good kids is undeniable. Society should put more effort into defining what good parenting is (not through law, but rather through custom) than helping kids learn how to fight back. Both may be necessary efforts, but one will have further-reaching impact.
Re:Son, as soon as someone puts their hands on you... by moshezadka on Thursday November 11, 2010 @06:54PM (#1895887)
Yes, here is a way to do it (not theoretical, worked in practice) -- get the adults involved. Make sure that your kid feels it's OK to tell you that he's been bullied (he's not being a snitch, he's bringing the problems to the knowledge of the right people). Then talk to the kid. Talk to the kid's parents. Make sure that if it doesn't stop, you will escalate -- you will talk to the school principal and the teachers. Make sure that the principal understand that you're willing to escalate further -- that you will make sure that it hits the local newspaper, that you will complain about it in the PTA meeting, and that you will be filing charges with the police for "assault".

When kids realize that there are consequences for bullying, and that they have to stop, they will. (The above goes for physical abuse, mostly. The solution for verbal abuse is "learn to insult them better". They either learn to stop insulting you, or they fall back to physical abuse, in which case, see above.)

That's what my parents did when I was bullied in middle school. They called the other kid's parents, and he stopped. There was one time they did need to threaten the principal with calling the police, and she pleaded with them not do it, promising that the kid was getting psychological help for his issues, and they agreed to conditionally back off (and he never threatened me again).

Bullying is already socially unacceptable -- it's against the law of society. We can solve it the same way we solve every other criminal activity, which is by involving the law enforcement authority.

Edit: Changed "socially acceptable" in the last paragraph to say "socially unacceptable" (was a typo).

Re:Son, as soon as someone puts their hands on you... by sausagefeet on Thursday November 11, 2010 @07:11PM (#1895946)
Parents can't be there for there kids 24/7. On top of that plenty of parents simply don't care. Their kid is a trouble maker and they've (sadly) grown to accept it. You might say that's a systemic problem that we need to fix, and my reply is "good luck".
Re:Son, as soon as someone puts their hands on you... by moshezadka on Thursday November 11, 2010 @08:22PM (#1896136)
But that's not the point, is it? We are talking about what advice parents give to their kids. The parents who would read a thread on HN are clearly the parents who care.

If a kid's parents do not care about him, I'd like to suggest that the least of that kid's problems is getting bullied in school.

Re:Son, as soon as someone puts their hands on you... by sausagefeet on Thursday November 11, 2010 @09:13PM (#1896250)
By parents not caring I was referring to your stereotypical bully's parents, not the parents on HN. Parents going to parents doesn't solve much if one of the parties does not care.
Re:Son, as soon as someone puts their hands on you... by achompas on Thursday November 11, 2010 @06:41PM (#1895851)
And if you have to fight - trust me on this - you have to go all in.

Truer words have never been spoken. Fighting isn't a first option--it's a last option. But if you were teased in school (like I was), the last thing a bully expects is a kid that will rage on him.

Making bullying "unacceptable" isn't a reality.

Re:Son, as soon as someone puts their hands on you... by extension on Thursday November 11, 2010 @06:46PM (#1895870)
Adult society is way ahead of kid society at making injustice socially unacceptable. Kid society can become civilized in the same way as adult society: law and order (doink doink).

Children need a justice system that they can respect, which will only happen if the system respects them back -- treats them like first class citizens with a voice and control over their world. The adult system can't do that, so they probably need one of their own. As their educators, adults need to help them build it.

Children want civility as much as adults do, but as long as they have no control over their world, they will not feel any responsibility for it.

Re:Son, as soon as someone puts their hands on you... by sausagefeet on Thursday November 11, 2010 @07:09PM (#1895937)
I think this is new-age-feel-good bologna. Children do not have a voice and control over the world, to pretend they do would be disingenuous and I'm not sure what value there is in pretend they do or giving them control. Most adults don't even have a voice and control over the world. I'm not a strong supporter of violence but I think it is unreasonable to think you can "Hey buddy, let's be friends" your way out of every situation.
Re:Son, as soon as someone puts their hands on you... by extension on Thursday November 11, 2010 @10:31PM (#1896422)
Control over their world, as in their own lives. We could afford to give them a lot more of that than we do now.
Re:Son, as soon as someone puts their hands on you... by noonespecial on Thursday November 11, 2010 @09:50PM (#1896316)
I'm pretty sure that if you give children "control over their world" you get Lord of the Flies.

Children aren't mini adults. They're half done adults. There's some scary and important stuff missing.

Re:Son, as soon as someone puts their hands on you... by extension on Thursday November 11, 2010 @10:25PM (#1896411)
Lord of the Flies is what we have now. The adults take what they need and otherwise leave children to make a fairly brutal society for themselves. They are just a natural resource, after all.

Not being little monsters should be a part of their education. Instead, they have to grow up and live in the adult world for several years before they actually learn to act like adults.