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Re:Ahead of IPO, Airbnb achieves profitability for second ye... by bradleyjg on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @06:14PM (#18916618)
On the other hand Uber is now operating mostly aboveboard while Airbnb, at least in its single largest market (NYC), is like Napster in its second incarnation—-while it may itself not be violating any laws the overwhelming majority of its facilitated transactions are illegal. That’s a dicey thing to invest in.
Re:Ahead of IPO, Airbnb achieves profitability for second ye... by reading-at-work on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @06:26PM (#18916735)
> the overwhelming majority of its facilitated transactions are illegal.

Any source on that? I know some municipalities regulate rentals now, but to say that the vast majority of them operate illegally is a bold claim to make with no data presented.

Re:Ahead of IPO, Airbnb achieves profitability for second ye... by bradleyjg on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @06:31PM (#18916761)
In NYC, Airbnb’s largest market, with tiny exceptions, it is illegal to rent out an entire apartment (i.e. host not present) for less than 30 days.
Re:Ahead of IPO, Airbnb achieves profitability for second ye... by sjg007 on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @10:30PM (#18918017)
NYC is crazy expensive. The govt will go after landlords first and then the subleases nest.. So if everyone in a building is airbnb but not directly owned by the landlord then forget it.
Re:Ahead of IPO, Airbnb achieves profitability for second ye... by jeremyis on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @08:44PM (#18917588)
I don't think NYC is Airbnb's largest market.
Re:Ahead of IPO, Airbnb achieves profitability for second ye... by toomanyrichies on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @09:40PM (#18917852)
The New York Times claims NYC is Airbnb's largest US market[1]. And CityLab claims NYC is Airbnb's 3rd-largest market worldwide.[2] However, with respect to whether "the overwhelming majority of its facilitated transactions are illegal":

Speaking strictly for NYC (the town I live + Airbnb host in), I think the more relevant metric is- what percent of Airbnb's revenue comes from the illegal kind of rental (i.e. rentals of the entire unit for more than 90 days of the year) vs the legal kind (whole-unit rentals totaling less than 90 days per year, as well as shared-unit rentals of any length)? According to Gothamist, 75% of its NYC revenue came from whole-unit rentals.[6] How much of that was legal is anyone's guess, but this is one reason why Airbnb was fighting tooth and nail to stop the recent city council legislation.[7]

NB- Another reason is that, once the city collects hosting data, it will likely use its housing inspection mandate to shut down most if not all Airbnb rentals in the city (not just illegal ones) at the behest of the local hotel employee's union. But that's me speculating, so take it with a grain of salt.

Keep in mind that Airbnb made $140 million in NYC in 2018[3], had $2.5 billion in 2017[4], and over $1B in revenue in Q3 of 2018 alone[5]. So the percentage of revenue it contributes is likely between 4-4.5%. If this went away overnight, the company would probably be fine as long as the damage ended there. But there's no guarantee of that, since other cities are considering similar legislation and are looking to see what the outcome of the above battle will be.

In the end, NYC will probably succeed in approving a permit system similar to San Francisco's, which will be enough to get the city the information it needs to shut down any Airbnb host it wishes.

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/18/nyregion/new-york-city-ai...

[2] https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/03/what-airbnb-did-to-ne...

[3] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-07-24/airbnb-s-...

[4] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-airbnb-results/airbnb-had...

[5] https://www.pymnts.com/earnings/2018/airbnb-third-quarter-re...

[6] http://gothamist.com/2018/06/28/city_council_takes_on_airbnb...

[7] https://ny.curbed.com/2018/7/19/17590164/airbnb-nyc-law-prop...

Re:Ahead of IPO, Airbnb achieves profitability for second ye... by Lucadg on Wednesday January 16, 2019 @12:25AM (#18918461)
Cities all over Europe have restricted or banned short rentals and many more are considering it. It will be messy and probably the results difficult to measure. On the other end Airbnb is collecting tourist taxes on behalf of some cities. This is particularly interesting because you have a corporation helping a city in something they struggle with (collecting taxes) and making themselves irrepleaceable. Smart move.
Re:Ahead of IPO, Airbnb achieves profitability for second ye... by bradleyjg on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @09:56PM (#18917903)
> whole-unit rentals totaling less than 90 days per year, as well as shared-unit rentals of any length

The multiple dwelling law does not allow any whole units to be rented for less than 30 days. There’s no exception for less than 90 days in a year total.

From the MDL: A ‘class A’ multiple dwelling is a multiple dwelling that is occupied for permanent residence purposes… ‘Permanent residence purposes’ shall consist of occupancy of a dwelling unit by the same natural person or family for thirty consecutive days or more and a person or family so occupying a dwelling unit shall be referred to herein as the permanent occupants of such dwelling unit.

Per your own link that means 75% of nyc Airbnb revenue is derived from facilitating illegal transactions.

Re:Ahead of IPO, Airbnb achieves profitability for second ye... by toomanyrichies on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @10:51PM (#18918105)
Yep, I stand corrected about the legality of whole-unit rentals less than 30 days. Looks like I was mixing up NYC and SF laws on that point.
Re:Ahead of IPO, Airbnb achieves profitability for second ye... by Shivetya on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @06:41PM (#18916848)
I am curious if Mayor Bill de Blasio will go after landlords who permit or partake of this following his recent declaration they will confiscate property of landlords they consider abusive or failing to maintain property to new standards. Of course he plans to turn them over to non profits which is code for politically connected groups which support him, but the idea that they don't put an Airbnb clause into the abusive category isn't baseless.

AirBnb is going to get knocked down a peg or two once the states get involved, they are able to dance around many cities and their attempts to reign it in but once a state level attorney comes for them it won't be simple.

however as with uber this comes down to private property rights, who do you choose to side with. Me, I am with the property owners as a Libertarian but I am with government regulation so that it is not abused to the injury of others. Specifically the idea of evicting people or requiring them to vacate during high profile events in town

Re:Ahead of IPO, Airbnb achieves profitability for second ye... by bradleyjg on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @10:02PM (#18917922)
> however as with uber this comes down to private property rights, who do you choose to side with. Me, I am with the property owners as a Libertarian

What about the property rights of the landlord? The co-op? Fellow condo owners? In addition to violating state law most of these units in NYC are being rented in violation of signed agreements (leases, proprietary leases, condo rules incorporated into purchase agreements).

Re:Ahead of IPO, Airbnb achieves profitability for second ye... by bradleyjg on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @06:44PM (#18916880)
Here’s one recent lawsuit seeking $21 million: https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/fbem/DocumentDisplayServlet...