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Re:Insect collapse by lotsofpulp on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @09:32AM (#18911316)
It's not equivalent since you're already alive. Not producing a child isn't the same as killing one's self in any way.
Re:Insect collapse by jellicle on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @11:16AM (#18912217)
Of course it is. You can immediately and permanently eliminate all of your CO2 production going forward. That's a big help to the world, not very useful for yourself though.

Obviously if we eliminate humanity we also eliminate humanity's impact on the world. You can also get rid of all bugs in your code by deleting the code. That is the exact definition of throwing the baby out with the bathwater though. We're looking for ways to eliminate humanity's impact without eliminating humanity.

Re:Insect collapse by jelliclesfarm on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @12:59PM (#18913259)
In 1600s, the population of the world was a little more than half a billion.[1] We predict 10 billion by 2050.

We certainly can work towards reducing our population. Starting with 1/2 surviving child per person. It is important that it can’t be bought or sold in order to maintain diversity of human genetic code.

We could also likely become part AI or part synthetic instead of organic to deal with a different planet. But I am treading sci fi here.

[1]http://www.ecology.com/population-estimates-year-2050/

P.S. nice handle!!

Re:Insect collapse by throwaway5752 on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @11:46AM (#18912479)
I hate to do this, but apparently you didn't understand what was quoted:

"One fewer child"

So instead of 3, have 2. If you were so inclined to have a vasectomy or tubal ligation after a 3rd child, it would help the overall situation.

It's about lowering the growth rate in human population. Similarly, your analogy to code is incorrect. It's about eliminating new bugs but reducing the number of commits.

Re:Insect collapse by tomp on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @10:04AM (#18911560)
In your value system.

It's easy to construct a value system where my own life and my future child's life are both worth more than 58 t CO2.

Re:Insect collapse by Zoh0eich on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @11:57AM (#18912581)
Well, then you may have a catch-22 where the expense of having your child could cause making the world unlivable for that child thus condemning it or its descendants to non-existence. Thus generalized to the whole population the best action to maintain the ability to have those valued children is to have fewer of them on average. So we're back to the same conclusion.
Re:Insect collapse by throwaway5752 on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @11:59AM (#18912611)
How do you reconcile the future warfare and famine risk to your N existing children caused by the additional carbon of your hypothetical N+1 vs your utility of having an N+1th child, though? Because that is the actual formulation.
Re:Insect collapse by toasterlovin on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @12:34PM (#18912990)
You reconcile it by reading some history books and realizing that life has always been tough and that the future probably won't be any tougher than the past.
Re:Insect collapse by ryanmercer on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @01:19PM (#18913464)
Except for the fact we are, in decades, affecting climate in a way that took several millennia previously and we've contaminated the water and air with not only microplastics but all sorts of outright toxic compounds.

Then of course we are making species go extinct 1,000 to 10,000 times the background rate because we are contaminating ecosystems, clear-cutting ecosystems and causing ecosystems to collapse by directly influencing climate making it impossible for parts of those ecosystems to survive.

Life is already orders of magnitude 'tougher than the past'.

Re:Insect collapse by throwaway5752 on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @02:49PM (#18914311)
I mean, you are absolutely, 100% incorrect. It's textbook fallacy. X is tough, Y was tough, we survived Y, and therefore we can survive X.

The planet has never been through warming as rapid as what we are going through in known geological (not human) history. There was a paper hosted and copublished by NASA to that effect in the last month. It's literally unknown how much life can survive the velocity of the change that is in progress.

What "history books" should I read about climate science, too?

Re:Insect collapse by toasterlovin on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @04:53PM (#18915809)
Climate change has caused famine and strife for humans in the past. It's one of the more common reasons for civilizational decline. Sure, this round of climate change is worse. But our ability to fend for ourselves is better.
Re:Insect collapse by throwaway5752 on Wednesday January 16, 2019 @01:45PM (#18923654)
Again, 100% fallacy. "Sure, this round of climate change is worse." and comparing that to another change (our coping ability) with no discussion of magnitude.

The degree of climate change is not just "worse". It's without precedent in geologic history in velocity of change. Our improved ability to fend for ourselves is many orders of magnitude less that the degree of change that is happening.

You can read your history books and multiple it by 100 or 1000.

Re:Insect collapse by toasterlovin on Wednesday January 16, 2019 @02:58PM (#18924436)
The scale of both differences is unknown. Current rate of climate change is unprecedented. Human civilizational complexity is also unprecedented. There is no way to know what the outcome will be.

Period.

Given that, it would be pretty stupid to preemptively quit.

Re:Insect collapse by throwaway5752 on Thursday January 17, 2019 @04:14PM (#18934700)
Nobody's quitting. Recognizing the gravity of our situation is essentially the opposite of quitting.