This is the main problem that I see. Sure, I tested the packets, sniffed them, made sure it wasn't recording, etc, but then they push an update the next day. I don't think it's practical to monitor these devices all the time, and I haven't been asked to opt-in to an Echo update.

I also don't necessarily assume mal-intent on the part of the companies, but that doesn't mean there won't _ever_ be that intent. Trusting that all of these assumptions hold over time is hard.

"Malintent" can be a hard bar to clear, but it's clear beyond a shadow of a doubt that these companies view these devices as mechanisms to push forward their own interests and desires, in addition to my own. I won't even necessarily call that morally wrong, or at least, that line is very fuzzy. But it does mean that viewing them with a certain amount of suspicion is just rational, not crazytalk.

(It's true of cell phones too, of course, and I am engaged in constant activity to ensure the phone works for me, and not any of the many corporations that want to make it work for them. Turning off notifications, uninstalling certain apps after they've gone bad, ensuring permissions aren't too wide open, uninstalling default-installed apps and disabling others... it's a constant battle made worthwhile only by the fact that in the end, I really have mostly mastered my phone and it is working for me. I don't have one of these audio assistants because it is far less clear to me how to do that. Modulo being spied on by intelligence agencies, anyhow, although at this point I'm not sure how one could even escape that.)

> This is the main problem that I see. Sure, I tested the packets, sniffed them, made sure it wasn't recording, etc, but then they push an update the next day. I don't think it's practical to monitor these devices all the time, and I haven't been asked to opt-in to an Echo update.

This is a problem with forced updates in general (I'm also thinking of Windows, Chrome, Chrome extensions, etc. here) that security experts seem completely blind to.

That said, note that even if the software didn't update, it doesn't mean it would have to send bad packets when you're actually observing. It could randomly start doing that once in a while after a few months.

> Trusting that all of these assumptions hold over time is hard.

This is the big point. You are not only trusting that the company as it is today is doing the right thing, but that the company will continue to do the right thing for so long as the device is in your house - and that they will do the right thing in perpetuity with your data (including if/when they sell the company down the road).

Over a year ago Google removed the part of the hardware that caused that bug on the Home mini: https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2017/10/11/16462572/...

And so something like that can never happen again? Regressions are a very real thing, both in hardware and software.

I'm not sure how you would regress a button that physically doesn't exist anymore. Also, if you're that scared of future bugs that don't exist, then you should probably throw away your smart phone.

I think the point is that bugs exist and will continue to exist: whether it's the same bug, a different one, mal-intent, negligence, or anything else. Sure, this one device won't solve every single problem out there, but should we not solve anything just because we can't solve everything?

Right, and my point is that bugs will exist for all devices, not just these. Applying the logic, "bugs could happen" to just these devices isn't rational because it applies to all all devices, especially smart phones. We shouldn't ditch devices because of future potential for bugs that don't exist yet.

The entire top surface of the Google Home is a button (capacitive). Those kinds of sensors are just as susceptible to physical defects as mechanical buttons.

As a side note, whataboutism adds nothing of value to this discussion about the Google Home and Amazon Echo.

And the capacitive button doesn't trigger the listening hardware. Splitting hairs over the hardware specifications isn't proof that the bug is still a problem.

Also, talking about your contradictory behavior with your smartphone isn't whataboutism, unless you want to avoid addressing your hypocrisy, because smart phones are susceptible to the same blanket fears you have with homes/alexa. To critique only the latter, and not the former (which you use daily), is not fair.

> And the capacitive button doesn't trigger the listening hardware.

Per Google's own site: "Long press to trigger the Google Assistant."