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Re:Anonymous Google Employees Voted Arms Control Persons of ... by darawk on Thursday January 10, 2019 @04:22PM (#18878331)
> Who gets to make that determination?

We do. Because we can. That is how the world works. If you don't make the decision, it gets made for you in the other direction.

> Also please don't pretend any of the US military engagements since WW2 had any other purpose than serving national interest.

This is a pretty childish sentiment. Reasons for war are complex. The world is actually a complicated place, and admits multiple concurrent motivations.

Re:Anonymous Google Employees Voted Arms Control Persons of ... by the_duke on Thursday January 10, 2019 @04:48PM (#18878596)
> Reasons for war are complex.

Yes they are. I only said that the motivation always was national self interest not benevolence.

> We do. Because we can.

I think that exhausted my tolerance for further discussion with you.

Re:Anonymous Google Employees Voted Arms Control Persons of ... by darawk on Thursday January 10, 2019 @05:16PM (#18878839)
> Yes they are. I only said that the motivation always was national self interest not benevolence.

I'm not even sure what that is supposed to mean. Nobody has ever fought a war for 'benevolence'. It's a silly concept. If you know anything of history, you'd also know that WWII was not fought for 'benevolence'.

Re:Anonymous Google Employees Voted Arms Control Persons of ... by duckMuppet on Friday January 11, 2019 @12:32AM (#18881239)
He's a millennial. All us Millennials know that it's 2019, and there isn't a reason for war in 2019, anywhere..
Re:Anonymous Google Employees Voted Arms Control Persons of ... by abugheratwork on Thursday January 10, 2019 @04:39PM (#18878485)
You just claimed that if we don't get them they'll get us, and then called someone childish.
Re:Anonymous Google Employees Voted Arms Control Persons of ... by darawk on Thursday January 10, 2019 @05:15PM (#18878822)
> You just claimed that if we don't get them they'll get us

No I didn't. Read what I said again.

Re:Anonymous Google Employees Voted Arms Control Persons of ... by avmich on Thursday January 10, 2019 @05:37PM (#18879057)
I read this - "If you don't make the decision, it gets made for you in the other direction" - and I understand that just as GP wrote.
Re:Anonymous Google Employees Voted Arms Control Persons of ... by darawk on Thursday January 10, 2019 @05:47PM (#18879135)
And how exactly does that mean "if we don't get them, they'll get us"? What it means is that not acting is as much an action as doing so.
Re:Anonymous Google Employees Voted Arms Control Persons of ... by avmich on Thursday January 10, 2019 @06:21PM (#18879487)
Not acting is always as much an action as doing so, if you consider actions abstractly. In this case I don't think it deserves stating.
Re:Anonymous Google Employees Voted Arms Control Persons of ... by darawk on Thursday January 10, 2019 @07:00PM (#18879748)
It did in the context of what I was replying to, which is why I stated it.
Re:Anonymous Google Employees Voted Arms Control Persons of ... by JohnFen on Thursday January 10, 2019 @04:30PM (#18878403)
So we haven't moved an inch past the old lie that "might makes right", then? How utterly depressing.
Re:Anonymous Google Employees Voted Arms Control Persons of ... by darawk on Thursday January 10, 2019 @05:15PM (#18878829)
> So we haven't moved an inch past the old lie that "might makes right", then? How utterly depressing.

Might makes right to decide what is right. That is now and always will be the case.

Re:Anonymous Google Employees Voted Arms Control Persons of ... by JohnFen on Thursday January 10, 2019 @05:22PM (#18878898)
I guess that depends on how you define "right". Might lets you impose your will on others. Being successful in doing so does not speak to whether or not your will is right.
Re:Anonymous Google Employees Voted Arms Control Persons of ... by darawk on Thursday January 10, 2019 @05:32PM (#18879009)
Indeed. Being successful doesn't mean you were right to do what you did. However, having the ability to impose your will and choosing not to is a moral choice, just as much as choosing to impose it is. If we have the power to stop terrible things from happening in other parts of the world, at some point, it is our duty to. This is complicated and wrapped up in issues of sovereignty, of course.
Re:Anonymous Google Employees Voted Arms Control Persons of ... by JohnFen on Thursday January 10, 2019 @05:39PM (#18879083)
I agree. I'm not a pacifist, and I certainly think there are situations where violently attacking people is, on the whole, the right thing to do.

I'm merely objecting to the notion that being the toughest kid on the block implies it's always right to use force. Might does not equal right. Sufficient might only equals military victory, nothing more.

Re:Anonymous Google Employees Voted Arms Control Persons of ... by darawk on Thursday January 10, 2019 @05:48PM (#18879155)
> I'm merely objecting to the notion that being the toughest kid on the block implies it's always right to use force. Might does not equal right. Sufficient might only equals military victory, nothing more

Absolutely. I did not mean to imply that in any way. What I meant was that might gives you the power, and therefore responsibility, to make moral decisions about when and where to impose your will on others when they are acting 'sufficiently immorally', however you choose to define that.

Re:Anonymous Google Employees Voted Arms Control Persons of ... by Gibbon1 on Thursday January 10, 2019 @05:55PM (#18879239)
> implies it's always right to use force.

Ever notice that people arguing for war are always anxious that the opportunity will slip away if we don't attack _them_ this instant?

Ever also notice that _them_ look pretty much like a lot of erstwhile allies that we aren't at loggerheads with?

Re:Anonymous Google Employees Voted Arms Control Persons of ... by CamperBob2 on Thursday January 10, 2019 @04:55PM (#18878666)
We do. Because we can. That is how the world works

That's all well and good, but I don't want to hear a lot of whining from your corner when the next 9/11 happens.

Re:Anonymous Google Employees Voted Arms Control Persons of ... by avmich on Thursday January 10, 2019 @05:40PM (#18879085)
Indeed. While I understand shock in USA at 9/11, I also understand where opinions that "America deserved it" had their merit.