News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Google transformed Mountain View, is San Jose next? by Fins on Thursday January 10, 2019 @12:20AM (#18871722)
But that's San Francisco. There absolutely are large cities with far more culture than the entire Bay Area (SF included), great food, things to do, and all that, where you can live 15-20 minute walk from downtown, in a decent neighborhood, in a nice place that will cost you probably 1/3 of what a repurposed chicken coop goes for in SV, and not have any parties right out your window.

Sure, you probably won't get to work on something as disruptive and world-changing as Theranos, Juicero, or whatever the latest SV hawtness is, but I think it is a pretty good trade-off.

Re:Google transformed Mountain View, is San Jose next? by mav3rick on Thursday January 10, 2019 @12:58AM (#18871848)
Nice shade there on SF. Instead of mentioning all the world changing things that have come out of there you mention the most controversial one out of a sample size of thousands. Salaries in SF still outdo other cities by a lot more even after factoring in the high COL. Not to mention the weather and easy access to nature / outdoorsy stuff.
Re:Google transformed Mountain View, is San Jose next? by Fins on Thursday January 10, 2019 @01:16AM (#18871912)
What are all those thousands "world-changing" things coming out of SF? Or do you include all the changing world for the worse things that come out of twitters and ubers?

Only in the SV bubble could one think that "disrupting the laundry pick-up industry" or some "uber for dog walking" is something world-changing

And COL-adjusted salaries in SF outdo other cities only if you happen to be at one of the FAANGs or something with particularly generous VC backing. But even for people who want to work there, there aren't enough FAANG jobs for everyone (and not everyone wants to touch them with a 10 foot pole). At the vast majority of companies pay isn't anything like that.

Not that weather in SF was all that great either.

Re:Google transformed Mountain View, is San Jose next? by pm90 on Thursday January 10, 2019 @02:00AM (#18872063)
Lol no.

Startups pay a lot. So do smaller companies located in SF. You have to: otherwise you lose employees fast.

Re:Google transformed Mountain View, is San Jose next? by Fins on Thursday January 10, 2019 @11:02AM (#18874799)
Except when they don't, and you end up with stock options in Pets.com If you get into a right startup, sure, you can walk away a millionaire, but while it makes for a nice SV foundational myth, in reality it happens to very few people.

But I guess it works, as long as there is a sufficient supply of bright-eye kids who were led to think that living with roommates after you've graduated from college is acceptable it all works out.

Re:Google transformed Mountain View, is San Jose next? by pm90 on Thursday January 10, 2019 @12:42PM (#18875976)
> bright-eye kids who were led to think that living with roommates after you've graduated from college is acceptable it all works out.

You realize that a lot of folks who work in SV are immigrants who come from situations much worse than this, right?

Even for Americans: please don't blame the young for the shitty economic situation that they've inherited. I get your point that they shouldn't put up with that lifestyle, but what do you expect them to do? Just not move here?

Once they're here and see that you can demand better compensation, they do move up the ladder.

Re:Google transformed Mountain View, is San Jose next? by Fins on Thursday January 10, 2019 @02:44PM (#18877330)
I'm not saying that they should not come, if they think it works for them. I object to the propaganda that it's the only place they should come to, or that anyone will be better off in SV than elsewhere. Neither seems to be correct, or takes in account all the negative externalities of pricing out anyone who does not work in adtech.

And there are lots of places in the US where economic situation (at least if you're IT-related) is quite good. E.g. in Chicago you can have a job, and buying your own house a few years out of college is perfectly doable. And you still have access to world-class culture, entertainment, food, what not. Really, in Chicago I have never heard of anyone working even in some boring corporate drone developer position who had to live with roommates. This is something students, or day laborers do. In the Valley I regularly met grown-up people working as software engineers for FAANGs who were bunking with roommates.

Sure, if someone likes it, all the power to them, but is it really the best option for everyone?

Re:Google transformed Mountain View, is San Jose next? by mav3rick on Thursday January 10, 2019 @02:06AM (#18872092)
Airbnb, Stripe, Twitter, Tesla, Docker...I can go on and on. Please go on with your narrative of poor start ups and keep on validating your life choices.
Re:Google transformed Mountain View, is San Jose next? by RestlessMind on Thursday January 10, 2019 @01:15AM (#18871910)
Sincere question - what world changing things came out of SF in the last 10-12 years? I can count only 2 - Uber and AirBnB - which have changed my life.
Re:Google transformed Mountain View, is San Jose next? by mav3rick on Thursday January 10, 2019 @02:06AM (#18872097)
Airbnb, Stripe, Twitter, Tesla, Docker. You != The rest of the world.
Re:Google transformed Mountain View, is San Jose next? by Fins on Thursday January 10, 2019 @11:11AM (#18874877)
Really, a payment processor, an enterprise of questionable legality that apparently had invented a concept of lodging, that what it takes to changer the world these days? And I did specifically mention Twitter. Changing the world for the worse isn't something to be proud of.

And Docker, which is neither from the Valley, as it was mentioned here, nor of any consequence to anyone not involved in the industry? That's not changing the world. That's SV self-congratulatory bubble

Re:Google transformed Mountain View, is San Jose next? by mav3rick on Thursday January 10, 2019 @12:51PM (#18876077)
Right, let's judge companies by your standards. Any company from SV is just flat out bad according to you. You cearly have a prejudice against SV. I am not one to force you to change this. There is a reason YCombinator moved to SV from Boston.
Re:Google transformed Mountain View, is San Jose next? by Fins on Thursday January 10, 2019 @02:26PM (#18877144)
Why any? You are way overexaggerating to prove some point.

There are some companies in SV that are doping something world-changing. Sometimes it's even for the better (often it's not, but let's not go there). But it's far from the only place these innovations come from. But coming back too the original point, it is just about the only place (other probably being Skolkovo) where you can get funding not just for outright frauds like Theranos, but for things like Juicero or what was the name of that company where they had their scientists pour liquid nitrogen around whenever investors or journalists came, to make it look "sciency".

Re:Google transformed Mountain View, is San Jose next? by RestlessMind on Saturday January 12, 2019 @09:10PM (#18894598)
Tesla is not from SF but headquartered in Palo Alto. As pointed out by sibling comments, Docker is from France.

Twitter - agreed.

Re:Google transformed Mountain View, is San Jose next? by mav3rick on Thursday January 10, 2019 @05:17AM (#18872780)
Docker is from France. Apologies for that.
Re:Google transformed Mountain View, is San Jose next? by wikibob on Thursday January 10, 2019 @05:15AM (#18872768)
Docker is from France.
Re:Google transformed Mountain View, is San Jose next? by pm90 on Thursday January 10, 2019 @01:59AM (#18872059)
Twitter. Stripe.
Re:Google transformed Mountain View, is San Jose next? by samatman on Thursday January 10, 2019 @12:44AM (#18871790)
Besides Chicago, which cities are you referring to?
Re:Google transformed Mountain View, is San Jose next? by Fins on Thursday January 10, 2019 @01:35AM (#18871977)
Mostly Chicago, really, because I've lived there for 25 years, but Austin would work too (somewhat less culture, though). Denver, Minneapolis, probably more.

After that it's probably more a matter of taste than anything. I don't think I would want to live in Omaha, but I certainly want to live in San Jose even less. And once you get to the point where a family becomes important, SV certainly is not the place where I want to raise kids, unless I wwre to win the lottery and be able to send them to a private school.

Re:Google transformed Mountain View, is San Jose next? by samatman on Thursday January 10, 2019 @01:43AM (#18872006)
I lived in Chicago for ten years so that one was easy to spot ^_^

I have family in Denver, it has a lot going for it, but none of Denver, Minneapolis nor Austin can be said to have 'far more culture' than SF.

I think the Bay has become overpriced for what you get, personally, but places with more cultural cachet in the US are NYC, LA, Chicago, and maybe Boston and Philly. If you don't like winter, it's Cali or nothing.

Re:Google transformed Mountain View, is San Jose next? by Fins on Thursday January 10, 2019 @02:03AM (#18872077)
I think Boston is ahead culturally, but I am not sure about affordability of living close to downtown.

Not sure about cachet... SF might have more of it in sense of having more "here a famous 60's musician shot acid" landmarks and movie references, but as far as things to do today that don't involve networking with scooter-riding techbros (stepping over the heroin-shooting homeless optional) even Austin so far seems to be ahead. And given how bad traffic on 101 is, I can drive to either Dallas or Houston, which have pretty good museums in not that much more time it takes to get to SF from the corner of San Jose where I lived.

Granted, my definition of culture isn't everyone's cup of tea either. But what's wrong with winter?! After a couple of years I found it very irritating that when I wake up and look in the window, I have no idea if it is June or January.

Re:Google transformed Mountain View, is San Jose next? by Apocryphon on Thursday January 10, 2019 @03:24AM (#18872359)
What makes Omaha preferable to Silicon Valley, besides the cost of living and presence of seasons?
Re:Google transformed Mountain View, is San Jose next? by Fins on Thursday January 10, 2019 @11:23AM (#18874999)
Granted, I've only passed through, but there were no homeless people shooting drugs in the middle of downtown, it was clean, apparently schools are quite good, and being in a middle of the country you can get to some more exciting places easily enough.

When somebody was trying to recruit me there, looking at the offering range and housing prices, I could fly myself to the French Laundry pretty regularly, and still come out ahead.

Re:Google transformed Mountain View, is San Jose next? by mav3rick on Thursday January 10, 2019 @03:39AM (#18872423)
Fins approval.
Re:Google transformed Mountain View, is San Jose next? by Fins on Thursday January 10, 2019 @11:27AM (#18875036)
This sounds a little bit too defensive, really.

There's nothing wrong in living in SV, as long as you like it. Or liking it. It is wrong to try to make it out as if it were the best place fro everybody; or even everybody in "computers". It's quite demonstrably not, just like it's not quite that engine of innovation, especially world-changing innovation it used to be.

Re:Google transformed Mountain View, is San Jose next? by mav3rick on Thursday January 10, 2019 @12:55PM (#18876126)
I didn't say this is for everyone. Choosing where to live is a personal choice. Just like living in Chicago and having less tech options and very hot summer, a very rough cold is not for everyone. The myth that SV is no longer the hot bed of innovation is also flat out wrong. If you tell me it's Denver or Austin or Seattle we can just look at the last companies to come out of these places vs SV.
Re:Google transformed Mountain View, is San Jose next? by Fins on Thursday January 10, 2019 @03:03PM (#18877521)
Well, exactly. It's not for everyone.

You also seem to be conflating companies (sure, it is easier to start a company in a place where you can get finding for almost anything, no matter how harebrained it is) and innovations. The way I see it, Web was an innovation (not from SV). A first browser that a normal person could use and would want to use was an innovation (flyover country). Showing that the Internet could be safely and reliably used for commerce (at least for a time)? Not SV either. These were world-changing innovations. Stripe or AirBnB? Not so much.