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Re:Tennessee doctors earn big money denying disability claims by wonderwonder on Monday January 07, 2019 @12:27PM (#18847380)
This is everything that is wrong with health care in the US. From the article:

"Staff doctors take more time. The state employed a small number of staff doctors whose compensation is not tied to the number of cases they review. These doctors reviewed cases at a rate that is in line with federal recommendations. They typically earned less than $150,000 annually, according to the state’s salary database. Beginning this year, however, the state is terminating all doctors on salary and relying only on contract physicians."

So essentially, salaried state doctors took their time to review cases, perhaps realizing that these are real people on the other end of the paper work. The state doctors were paid less than the private doctors and the state is going to lay them off to go full private despite the fact that some of the private doctors are clearly just plowing through the reviews to boost their income.

A whistle blower then called this out and was let go.

Seems like corporate lobbying is alive and well in TN. Don't worry about the individuals, there's money to be made.

Re:Tennessee doctors earn big money denying disability claims by sharemywin on Monday January 07, 2019 @12:53PM (#18847783)
Seems like a simple 10X fine for screwing up would fix the problem. But the government has run by people that hate government will never fix the problem.
Re:Tennessee doctors earn big money denying disability claims by mrguyorama on Monday January 07, 2019 @01:31PM (#18848327)
In fact, those government hating people have significant incentive to continue to balls it up worse.

"Look how shitty government is, elect me to fix it"

Re:Tennessee doctors earn big money denying disability claims by jerf on Monday January 07, 2019 @03:15PM (#18849516)
"But the government has run by people that hate government will never fix the problem."

Who, exactly, are you referring to?

It's not like the stuff the article covers started in January of 2017. Who, exactly, in the chain of command here "hates government"?

Re:Tennessee doctors earn big money denying disability claims by learc83 on Monday January 07, 2019 @03:52PM (#18849933)
The OP is probably referring to the state legislature, the governor, and people appointed by the governor.

The state government is controlled by Republicans and though not all Republicans "hate" every aspect of the government, a large contingent of party could be accurately described as hating government involvement in areas they don't agree with--like welfare, disability, healthcare etc...

The leader of the party has explicitly advocated for allowing and encouraging the current healthcare system (the ACA) to implode, so that he can replace it with something else. He also placed people in charge of departments who explicitly stated that such departments shouldn't exist.

Re:Tennessee doctors earn big money denying disability claims by vkou on Monday January 07, 2019 @03:39PM (#18849789)
This problem didn't start in 2017, it started with the Reagan presidency.
Re:Tennessee doctors earn big money denying disability claims by basementcat on Monday January 07, 2019 @04:38PM (#18850425)
This started long before Reagan. Even Andrew Jackson allowed the Charter of the ancestor of the Federal Reserve to expire.
Re:Tennessee doctors earn big money denying disability claims by vkou on Monday January 07, 2019 @05:48PM (#18851071)
The consequences of which affect precisely nobody today.

In 2019, we are living in a world where one of the two parties made bad government a cornerstone of their party's policy, ~35 years ago. We are now reaping the wages of that decision.

Re:Tennessee doctors earn big money denying disability claims by pnutjam on Monday January 07, 2019 @07:43PM (#18851842)
Yes, this is largely because disability has become the defacto welfare system.
Re:Tennessee doctors earn big money denying disability claims by dsfyu404ed on Monday January 07, 2019 @01:55PM (#18848624)
Very very few people who don't believe in the mission of whatever their organization does make it very long in government. Government organizations are such a political and bureaucratic nightmare that you need to believe in what they do to be able to see past all that.

The guy who's shooting dogs for the ATF might thing the DEA is scum and the guy who's shooting dogs for the DEA might think the ATF is a waste but they both believe in the mission of their organization (or at least to the extent needed to do their jobs). They don't care or even realize that shooting dogs isn't their mission, it's just what the incentive structure tells them to do.

Re:Tennessee doctors earn big money denying disability claims by DFHippie on Monday January 07, 2019 @02:25PM (#18848987)
I think you misunderstood the comment. The guy who's shooting dogs for the ATF isn't who's meant by "person running the government". It's the elected/appointed officials who hate government. These don't have to last very long to cause a lot of damage. Look at Scott Pruitt and Ryan Zinke.
Re:Tennessee doctors earn big money denying disability claims by dsfyu404ed on Monday January 07, 2019 @02:46PM (#18849225)
I see where you're coming from but none of the stuff related to the article is happening on that level. It isn't top down intentional negligence that's causing these sorts of incentive misalignment. It seems to be good old fashioned incompetence.

These doctors are shooting all the dogs (metaphorically speaking of course) but they're shooting all the dogs because the organization they work within has incentivized that behavior. It's not a top down policy to shoot (metaphorical) dogs. It just so happens that if your top down policy is to suck at everything then there's no motivation to stop the people at the leafs of the organizational tree from shooting dogs (denying disability wrongly as a matter of standard) practice. I think this is incompetence, not malice. The people actually misbehaving are too far removed from policy for this to be malice.

Re:Tennessee doctors earn big money denying disability claims by Retric on Monday January 07, 2019 @02:50PM (#18849262)
All of this stuff is happening at a high level. At the low level it’s all people responding to their incentives, it’s the high level that sets up the system.
Re:Tennessee doctors earn big money denying disability claims by jessaustin on Monday January 07, 2019 @03:22PM (#18849574)
Surely there are incentives at work at higher levels as well? That isn't "outside" the system.
Re:Tennessee doctors earn big money denying disability claims by Retric on Monday January 07, 2019 @06:26PM (#18851376)
People at the bottom can only change their own actions. So if 3/4 of them act well you still have a problem. However, if 3/4 at the top act directly they can change the rules.
Re:Tennessee doctors earn big money denying disability claims by jessaustin on Tuesday January 08, 2019 @02:12PM (#18858540)
Many of the incentives that act on higher levels are set in the Constitution or well-established law. The laws become a little bit worse from this perspective every year, as new forms of nest-feathering are introduced and entrenched. The system as it exists "incentivizes" this process. This will not be fixed by those whose own incentives lock them into this system, whatever level they inhabit.
Re:Tennessee doctors earn big money denying disability claims by Retric on Tuesday January 08, 2019 @03:39PM (#18859438)
The US is not in a steady downward spiral. Some years things improve and others they get worse, but it’s individuals that make the decisions shaping history.
Re:Tennessee doctors earn big money denying disability claims by jessaustin on Tuesday January 08, 2019 @10:42PM (#18862076)
Of course USA is not in a downward anything. USA government on the other hand is certainly circling the bowl. There is a difference between those! It may be that various states of America will eventually decide on a different way of organizing society. I'm hopeful, because when things change they often get better.

It's curious that you can see how incentives shape the behavior of some people, but not that of other people.

Re:Tennessee doctors earn big money denying disability claims by Retric on Wednesday January 09, 2019 @01:02PM (#18866997)
I am specifically saying the US government has been more and less corrupt in the past.

It’s not about people at the top responding differently it’s about the flow of influence. If 20% of the people at the bottom behave poorly the other people at the bottom have little influence. That changes at the top as it’s easyer to monitor a small group of people and their actions are more documented.

Ex: A cashier can fail to scan items for their friends at checkout and without any form of paper trail. The CFO can do more harm, but it’s harder for them to act in secret.

Re:Tennessee doctors earn big money denying disability claims by maxxxxx on Monday January 07, 2019 @06:00PM (#18851169)
"Very very few people who don't believe in the mission of whatever their organization does make it very long in government. Government organizations are such a political and bureaucratic nightmare that you need to believe in what they do to be able to see past all that. "

That's simply not true. Go to DC and you will meet a lot of dedicated and highly qualified people working at agencies. And they stay around. The real problem is Congress and some of the media that just scream "government bad" and "deep state" instead of doing their job which is to give the agencies guidance and fixing problems.

Re:Tennessee doctors earn big money denying disability claims by stefan_ on Monday January 07, 2019 @04:29PM (#18850339)
I'm cynical, so I think you missed the punch line. Presumably those previously salaried doctors will be hired back as consultants, bringing their productivity in line.
Re:Tennessee doctors earn big money denying disability claims by mtgx on Monday January 07, 2019 @12:55PM (#18847812)
And yet another case warning whistleblowers against "going through the proper channels". That almost never works out for the whistleblower.
Re:Tennessee doctors earn big money denying disability claims by ABCLAW on Monday January 07, 2019 @02:23PM (#18848955)
In my line of work, whistleblower complaints often result in very concrete investigations and mitigative action being taken. One key similarity between these issues is that the problem is dealt with internally as discretely as possible.

Some organizations are looking for a paper trail to indicate they've done something - anything - to remedy the issue. Others try to get the full story and fix the rot.

I think we just don't hear about situations where the whistleblowers do a tremendous amount of good, because those are situations in which the problem has successfully been contained and thus aren't newsworthy.

Re:Tennessee doctors earn big money denying disability claims by vonmoltke on Monday January 07, 2019 @12:53PM (#18847788)
> Seems like corporate lobbying is alive and well in TN.

Where is the corporate lobbying in this case? There are no corporations mentioned in connection with this story.

Re:Tennessee doctors earn big money denying disability claims by Spooky23 on Monday January 07, 2019 @01:10PM (#18848018)
Follow the money. Start with the principals associated with the contractors awarded the work.
Re:Tennessee doctors earn big money denying disability claims by vonmoltke on Monday January 07, 2019 @01:45PM (#18848510)
These are independent contractors. The doctors doing the work are the principals, and they get all the payout from the contract.
Re:Tennessee doctors earn big money denying disability claims by Spooky23 on Monday January 07, 2019 @03:30PM (#18849673)
Government procurement doesn't work that way. Disability determination is a program funded by the US Social Security Administration, and comes with lots of compliance requirements that would be too expensive to implement for hundreds of contractors. Even if Tennessee allows you to give cash to random individuals, the Feds do not.

There is almost certainly a prime contractor who owns the relationship, who then hires independent contractors as subs. They probably collect a percentage or fixed fee for each piecework task completed.

Re:Tennessee doctors earn big money denying disability claims by vernie on Monday January 07, 2019 @12:58PM (#18847853)
Maybe parent is referring to Marsha Blackburn.
Re:Tennessee doctors earn big money denying disability claims by nostrebored on Monday January 07, 2019 @01:20PM (#18848175)
A consultant with zero incentive to solve cases quickly being slower isn't necessarily a good thing or surprising
Re:Tennessee doctors earn big money denying disability claims by longerthoughts on Monday January 07, 2019 @01:31PM (#18848329)
I wouldn't say zero incentive - I'd imagine they're still being evaluated according to established standards for close rates, which would explain why their close rates are described as in line with guidelines. The problem is having people take more time to close cases doesn't necessarily mean they're being more thorough - they could simply be waiting longer to start an equally superficial review because they know that they're supposed to be hitting a given close rate and don't want to appear to rush. Basically, time with eyes on application isn't necessarily equal to time elapsed from receipt to close.
Re:Tennessee doctors earn big money denying disability claims by nostrebored on Monday January 07, 2019 @01:39PM (#18848425)
Exactly. If 45 minutes is the established lower bar for determining disability qualification by (non medical?) professionals, I would expect to see some meaningful difference in the average time and the lower bar. To me, having a standard close rate is zero incentive for each qualified individual
Re:Tennessee doctors earn big money denying disability claims by onetimemanytime on Monday January 07, 2019 @12:42PM (#18847625)
If all the papers are submitted and checked by other staff, I don't think 40 minutes or so is not enough to decide. The doctor is simply checking what is submitted. I'm only commenting on the time aspect.
Re:Tennessee doctors earn big money denying disability claims by wonderwonder on Monday January 07, 2019 @12:46PM (#18847689)
From the article:

"Like Thrush, some of these doctors work very fast.

Dr. Kanika Chaudhuri, a pediatrician, evaluated 3,872 cases last fiscal year, averaging more than four cases per hour when she worked. She earned $192,000 in fiscal 2018 and $1.1 million since 2013.

Out of all the cases Chaudhuri reviewed over the five years, 78 percent were denied, according to data provided by the state."

Re:Tennessee doctors earn big money denying disability claims by briandear on Monday January 07, 2019 @06:15PM (#18851285)
Is it possible that 78% should have been denied? What rate is acceptable? If the doctor approved 78% wouldn’t that also be concerning? One of the biggest areas of fraud is in disability claims. I am not saying that 78% denial is accurate, but what evidence do we have that it isn’t?
Re:Tennessee doctors earn big money denying disability claims by lsiebert on Monday January 07, 2019 @06:27PM (#18851377)
The national average is 66%, and presumably living in TN doesn't make one more likely to be fraudulent.
Re:Tennessee doctors earn big money denying disability claims by darkpuma on Monday January 07, 2019 @06:59PM (#18851610)
> and presumably living in TN doesn't make one more likely to be fraudulent.

Is it really a safe assumption that all states have identical rates of fraud? Different states have very different economic and social situations that could pressure somebody into committing fraud. Some states are suffering more than others with prescription drug abuse. Some states have industries that result in more disabilities than other states \cough{coal mines...}

In West Virginia 8.9% of the working age population receives disability, while in Hawaii only 2.8% do. In Tennessee, 6.5% of the working age population is on disability. The national average is 4.6%

Re:Tennessee doctors earn big money denying disability claims by sobrevivendo on Monday January 07, 2019 @06:16PM (#18851304)
I trust the recommendations by a panel of professionals much more than my gut feeling in this. Specially given the complexity, the stake and this broken appeal system.
Re:Tennessee doctors earn big money denying disability claims by nickthemagicman on Monday January 07, 2019 @12:57PM (#18847839)
Is this considered privatization?
Re:Tennessee doctors earn big money denying disability claims by async-await on Monday January 07, 2019 @01:11PM (#18848044)
Please remind me not to move my tech firm to TN.