Because there are no "proper values", there are "your values".

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/n5TqCuizyJDfAPjkr/the-baby-e...

Just because morality is subjective doesn’t mean there aren’t rights that we must deem fundamental and defend globally.

This knee jerk relativism is getting old. Just because morality exists outside of systems of formal logic, doesnt make it any less important. It is still up for debate.

Which right is more fundamental? My right of deciding my own morality, or your right of enforcing your global values?

Nobody is forcing Saudis to watch a Netflix show they find morally repugnant -- the Saudi government prevented its citizens from seeing something politically sensitive.

I can't believe posters on HN are defending this.

Indeed.

I can’t for the life of me understand what motivates people on this forum to behave this way...

Who's defending this? I, specifically, didn't talk about this specific instance at all.

Pick a position.

Right, because there must be enforceable universal moralities for Netflix to decide that they don't want to remove an episode.

My issue with your participation in this discussion is that you think you are moving the discussion forward when you post a less-wrong link to support your statement about moral relativism.

And you maintain the same sense of correctness even as it is explained to you that your argument is regressive and unhelpful.

I posted exactly two comments on this, one saying that there are no "proper values", and one asking what they would look like if there were.

Commenters mistaking this for me condoning what Netflix did or making some broader assumption are just that, mistaken.

You did answer my question with an example, but I chose not to reply because I thought that if two sentences can be misconstrued so badly, more sentences wouldn't make anything better, but, since you replied, I will ask you:

> All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights

If a woman decides that she wants to cover her face with a burqa and we legislate a burqa ban, are we following her right to freedom or are we oppressing her? If a society votes that they don't want to see nudity on TV, is it right for another society to not adhere to that? Is it moral for Spotify to censor songs that the US finds offensive, even though Sweden disagrees?

If me and a friend vote to kill you, are we right to do that?

> All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.

The above is an example of a “global value” to be enforced.

If that is being violated anywhere, it is a problem.

But then why is pure profit motive a default, it's not fundamentally more "proper".

This just sounds like an excuse to pander to human greed.

just because you say that confidently doesn’t mean it’s true

How is this not an apology for raping children or female genital mutilation?

it’s exactly that. to moral relativists there’s no way to make any judgement between rape children and devoting your life to helping others. In fact, they could think it’s a perfectly valid opinion that the former is better than the latter morally.

We can't do it because we don't want other countries doing it to us. Can you imagine the outrage if a Saudi company in the US was ordered to stop discriminating, and they refused to comply because they believe gender discrimination is proper and just?

Certainly there are some things so terrible that we should expect companies not to go along, preferring to leave the country rather than participate. But censoring a TV episode (not even an entire show!) isn't that bad in the scheme of things.

Very smart argument! However, this happens nevertheless all the time (GDPR, food/drug regulations, ...). We just consider it normal when we can somehow agree on the benefits :).

Because SA is a powerful country. Netflix is small steaming company comparing to it. Their power aren't on par with each other.

Besides, Saudi probably has very different values, I am pretty sure if they try to spread their version of proper values in US, like what quality defines a woman, people won't be very welcoming and outrage will follow.

Now, the power imbalance is a problem, of course.

But the mere fact that someone has a different opinion on something does not in any way entitle them to equal consideration of their position. Just because a murderer thinks that murdering people is fine does not mean that you should be welcoming towards murders or that outrage is unjustified.

Are sexism and homophobia values now?

Ask the right 15% of the population. We just marginalized sexism and homophobia in the western societies. Do not extrapolate from that.

Take religion as a sample. The western countries will be majority atheist in 30-50 years. Do not assume that is the same around the globe.