Sobriety startups shaking up the 12-step model

Re:Sobriety startups shaking up the 12-step model by bsagdiyev on Friday January 04, 2019 @04:35AM (#18822867)

I'm not sure why, it may be a regional thing but I attend meetings in support for someone else and there are plenty of people who do not believe in God and state as such. I believe the third step even agrees, though I may be misinterpreting it: "Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him."

The "as we understood Him", while most likely still referring to God, is what is used to mean whatever works for you even if it isn't God but something you can believe in as much to help you, which then opens the door for substituting God in the later steps for your version (or not) of him.

My personal opinion is that I find the program a bit cultish and don't agree that telling people they are helpless is the right way to help them, but that's my opinion and I respect that the program works for some people.

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Re:Sobriety startups shaking up the 12-step model by coleifer on Friday January 04, 2019 @02:27PM (#18826924)

> I find the program a bit cultish

I have shared in meetings that I sometimes think AA/NA is a cult. Everyone understood. And over time I've come to see the importance of the word "Anonymous", which is found in the name (obviously) but also in the traditions, and means exactly this: that everyone is equal within the group. There is no "great leader", nobody that is "right", nobody that is "wrong". It is about sharing one's experience -- the things one has done, the actions one has taken -- which speak for themselves.

> and don't agree that telling people they are helpless is the right way to help them

The actual word is "powerless", not "helpless". And this powerlessness describes:

- the addict's inability to stop despite earnest and sincere desire.

- the inability, once clean for a short time, to keep from returning to drug use

Before I started attending 12-step, I had read the Bible, Marcus Aurelius, Tao Te Ching, various self-help books, The Power of Now, How to Win Friends and Influence People, and on and on and on. I had within me all the beliefs and understanding needed to live in a good way, in accordance with my principles. In short, to live with dignity. And yet I could not live according to my own principles. This wasn't just about drug use...it was about being patient, kind, tolerant, loving, helpful. I think that's the root of the powerlessness talked about in AA/NA. What I've found is that, with the belief in a higher power, I'm able to go to bed with a sense of dignity most days.

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Re:Sobriety startups shaking up the 12-step model by Throwaway12step on Friday January 04, 2019 @05:54AM (#18823137)

Powerlessness is the idea that an addict can't just do a little and stop on their own will. Anyone who can stop (like my wife who drinks half a glass of wine) isn't an addict. Being powerless over addiction isn't helpless. The help is right there in the meeting.

I get what you're saying about feeling cult-like. Is it maybe it feels like there are cliques in the room? If so, I imagine if your friend asks to talk to or hang out with those people, they'll more likely than not be open to it. A lot of members don't run right up and hug new people because we don't want to freak them out.

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